NACS Inlet Port options

[asavage]

For a while there was considerable effort being made to adapt the Model 3 inlet port and controller for DCFC:

viewtopic.php?t=1040

The landscape has changed, we have other CCS add-on options, but now in the US NACS is ascendant. If I wanted to install a NACS inlet, for purposes of DCFC, and use a non-Tesla controller for the CCS comms (BMW i3 LIM, AR7420, or QCA700x), what options are there for the physical port?

EVWest sells a NACS charge inlet:

Tesla Charge Port Inlet - 50A - J1772 Compatible

But it's limited to 50A, and offers no nozzle lock. For my purposes, I desire 125A and nozzle locking.

Are there NACS charge inlet options other than used Tesla bits?

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

Are there NACS charge inlet options other than used Tesla bits?

To the best of my knowledge, only used Tesla stuff at this point.

The landscape has changed, we have other CCS add-on options, but now in the US NACS is ascendant. If I wanted to install a NACS inlet, for purposes of DCFC, and use a non-Tesla controller for the CCS comms (BMW i3 LIM, AR7420, or QCA700x), what options are there for the physical port?

I've been thinking about putting together something to test this concept with, likely this fall after I complete other work on the car.

As a side bar, it does seem from what I've read that only some of the Superchargers use the CCS comms. All of the latest GM/Ford/etc press releases have used a lower number of stations than Tesla does, and when Tesla began offering a CCS adapter for their cars, older cars needed an update to be able to use it. From that, my supposition is that NACS used to use a different comms protocol, but at some point, in order to offer CCS adapters and perhaps looking forward to this point where they've opened the standard, they switched the comms to CCS standard. New Teslas can speak both, and new Tesla owned stations can speak both, but they're only releasing the CCS version of the standard, so other OEMs (and likely us heathens) can only use the stations that use CCS comms protocol

My guess would be that older stations will slowly be updated to new stations with the full NACS capabilities/CCS comms.

Maybe I've got this all wrong, but it makes sense to me.

[asavage]

The earliest Model S (2012-early 2013) used SWCAN rather than PLC for comms, but that changed sometime around Tesla entering the EU market (Norway etc. in Aug2013; UK in Jun2014) and having to have CCS2 by their regulations, so quite a while ago. I *think* that SCs have been provisioned for CCS for a number of years, based on that. But there were already a bunch of V1 SCs out there by then. I like your reasoning about the press release number of SCs available to GM/Ford/whoever vs Tesla's number.

On the NA/South Korea car side, Tesla didn't include CCS(PLC) comm hardware in our market until . . . 2019? 2020? There are a lot of "GEN4 Charge Controllers" for sale for Model 3s, to convert early ones to talk CCS. So, yeah, NA Teslas won't talk CCS unless upgraded hardware is installed. But they can use Tesla's (or aftermarket) external CCS1 adapters that maybe translate CCS to SWCAN? Without the vehicle upgrades? IDK, I don't own a Tesla anymore and I don't keep up.

Tesla will be replacing a lot of older SC hardware, I hope. We don't know if the general public's access to SC sites will require V4 Magic Dock upgrades to the SCs, or if CCS1 users will all be forced to carry CCS1->NACS adapters. I don't really care all that much either way.

---

I posted these pics elsewhere last night:



I like the way the HV leads are bolted to the port's terminals, allowing a 90° turn in a short distance, but the whole unit is sealed at the front but open everywhere else, not anything like weather resistant, and it needs to be mounted in an environment controlled space, which makes packaging difficult for me, as my project doesn't have an easy way to seal up where the charge port goes. I'm still looking at options.

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

Tesla will be replacing a lot of older SC hardware, I hope. We don't know if the general public's access to SC sites will require V4 Magic Dock upgrades to the SCs, or if CCS1 users will all be forced to carry CCS1->NACS adapters. I don't really care all that much either way.

I see the biggest outstanding question as this: will you be able to initiate a charge at a non-magic dock SC for a car that isn't on Tesla's list?

All of these press releases talk about app integration. If the only cars that can charge at a non-magic dock SC are those that other OEMs have submitted to Tesla, then we're up a creek, so to speak. If instead, there is an option in the Tesla app to add "other vehicle" and initiate at a non-magic dock SC, then we should be able to use any CCS solution with the NACS port. Obviously, this shouldn't be a concern at other networks' stations that have NACS, just Tesla's, that have no way to initiate charge without either the station recognizing the car or using the app.

I think we'll get an answer either once we can try it out, or once the NACS station to CCS car adapters come out next year.

I think that if we are able to charge unlisted cars at non-magic dock SC stations, there will instantly be a market for kits to convert your CCS or CHAdeMO equipped car to a NACS port permanently. Obviously some would rather keep their CCS port, but others will want to change.

I like the way the HV leads are bolted to the port's terminals, allowing a 90° turn in a short distance, but the whole unit is sealed at the front but open everywhere else, not anything like weather resistant, and it needs to be mounted in an environment controlled space, which makes packaging difficult for me, as my project doesn't have an easy way to seal up where the charge port goes. I'm still looking at options.

I agree that's a nice configuration, but fitting it in another car will be an issue. I haven't started to dig into that yet, but definitely see a need for a non-salvaged port option.

[asavage]

I just now purchased a 1005612-00-G (early Model S Charge Port), to hang in my garage alongside my Taycan port . . . sold the BMW i3 port last week.

I might collect the whole set, at this rate

I am now thinking along the lines of fab'ing a box around it for my project.

[Shockazulu1]

I just now purchased a 1005612-00-G (early Model S Charge Port), to hang in my garage alongside my Taycan port . . . sold the BMW i3 port last week.

I might collect the whole set, at this rate

I am now thinking along the lines of fab'ing a box around it for my project.

I think for your project it makes the most sense.
You have a small charger port opening.
You can get a CCS1 to NACS adapter.
Now you have a way to plug the huge CCS1 plug into your smaller NACS inlet.
Now you will just need a switch somewhere to switch from AC to DC.
The switch will need to control your new DC contractors, and now you will need contractors to cut you AC lines when configured to DCFC.
Allows the possibility (risk) to forget to switch to correct configuration.

[asavage]

you will need contractors to cut you AC lines when configured to DCFC

In my case, I don't need to cut off AC when DCFC, because the Tesla OBCs always have tolerated HVDC at their AC input. That's the way the Model S (and our RAV4 EVs, which use the same OBC) do it.

So when DCFC, just need to close the HVDC contactors in the new HVJB -- via CCS controller doo-dad (in progress).

[Shockazulu1]

In my case, I don't need to cut off AC when DCFC, because the Tesla OBCs always have tolerated HVDC at their AC input. That's the way the Model S (and our RAV4 EVs, which use the same OBC) do it.

So when DCFC, just need to close the HVDC contactors in the new HVJB -- via CCS controller doo-dad (in progress).

I myself would be very nervous about allowing HVDC voltage into my AC charger.
Unless I had an extra AC charger and access to HVDC current to bench test it.
I had always assumed Tesla used a complex arrangement of switches to do the magic of sharing the same contacts for AC or DC charging.

[asavage]

Nope, I have a GEN1 Model S OBC sitting on the shelf next to me, it's hardware-identical inside to my RAV4 EV's, I've had them both apart, and I bought a Model S GEN1 Rear HVJB to which the OBC attaches, and that's how it works: the OBC can handle AC or HVDC on its input. Operation is described in Tesla's 2012 Model S Service Manual, Theory of Operation section. From our Wiki:





If you follow the Charge Port leads to the OBC's input, you'll see that there is no switch or contactors: it gets whatever is put on the Charge Port's leads.

The Rear HVJB's DCFC bypass contactors close when the SC sends a signal (variously described in that doc as either CAN or PWM 5%, you decide which is correct: I think it's both, personally), the BMS sends CAN to the OBC, which drives the DCFC bypass contactors.

It's a pretty clever idea.

[asavage]

For those interested in the early Model S NACS charge port bits, I've torn one down completely and taken pics, added a couple of measurements, and put them in my project thread:

viewtopic.php?p=59917#p59917
and, later
viewtopic.php?p=60124#p60124