Zombieverter + Thunderstruck MCU

[CapriV]

I have the zombieverter running my 450h and the battery box contactors.
I have the MCU from Thunderstruck that runs the BMS
Anyone using these two systems combined?
Thanks

[tom91]

Do you have a CAN spec for the Thunderstruck MCU?

What functions do you want to have the Zombie do and which the Thunderstruck BMS?

[Zieg]

I have the mcu but no Zombie. The manual has pretty decently documented functions and can mappings. It also has a list of OBDii SIDs, and recently Kelan from Thunderstruck sent me a DBC for all the J1939 messages it can handle. If you just want it to pass along SOC, voltage, amps and temps you should be able to do that pretty easily with the j1939 table.

[CapriV]

Do you have a CAN spec for the Thunderstruck MCU?

What functions do you want to have the Zombie do and which the Thunderstruck BMS?

Hey.
I want the Zombie to control the 450H with access to the IVT-S can
Then the Thunderstruck MCU to handle the battery charging and management.
I have both setups working separately on the bench.

Kelan said both systems should be able to use the same IVT, I do have 2 of these though.... maybe use one for each?

One thing I have not wrapped my ignorance around yet is how to combine contactor engagement for charging when the zombie is powered down.
I have the Zombie working the negative, positive & precharge contactors using a bench top power supply and the motor is spinning.
I will have 2 separate battery boxes in my car that will be wired in series but how do I get the zombie to close all the contactors (and precharge) for charging via the TS MCU. Or do I wire in a complete second set of contactors for the TS MCU charge circuit only?

I would also need some sort of proximity fail safe wired to the zombie to halt driving when charging.

I'm just getting back to this project from last year so forgive me if this is a dumbo question. . . Thanks

[tom91]

Kelan said both systems should be able to use the same IVT

Zombie configures the IVT different then default so you will need 2.

One thing I have not wrapped my ignorance around yet is how to combine contactor engagement for charging when the zombie is powered down.

Power on the zombie, utilize a 12V input signal to set it to charge mode - possibly need the charge interface set to Chamdemo (or other but can easily be made to work (worst case I code it in)).

As for drive away protection, once in charge mode you cannot go into drive unless you key off the zombie it needs to go through off before allowing drive.

Sharing the Voltage and Current limits can also be done if you have info on the MCU CAN messages.

[CapriV]

Zombie configures the IVT different then default so you will need 2.



Power on the zombie, utilize a 12V input signal to set it to charge mode - possibly need the charge interface set to Chamdemo (or other but can easily be made to work (worst case I code it in)).

As for drive away protection, once in charge mode you cannot go into drive unless you key off the zombie it needs to go through off before allowing drive.

Sharing the Voltage and Current limits can also be done if you have info on the MCU CAN messages.

Ok. thanks for the input!

I guess when enabling charge mode it will activate the precharge circuitry?

[tom91]

In does the contactor sequence for charging yes.

[Zieg]

If you're using the Thunderstruck charger, it has a 12v output that's active during charging. That's how I wake my vcu. Can also be used as a drive inh although it won't be active if charging is finished but the plug is still in.

There's also a NC relay in the charger that opens during charging in case it's helpful to interrupt a signal somewhere.

[CapriV]

If you're using the Thunderstruck charger, it has a 12v output that's active during charging. That's how I wake my vcu. Can also be used as a drive inh although it won't be active if charging is finished but the plug is still in.

There's also a NC relay in the charger that opens during charging in case it's helpful to interrupt a signal somewhere.

Yes I'm using their TSM2500 Charger (CAN enabled)

Thanks for the help on this, very much appreciated!

[Jaybee379]

CapriV - how are you progressing with this?
I am planning to use the zombieverter on a Nissan Leaf motor (and I want to use as much of the DCDC and charger bits built in), but I can't easily fit the leaf battery pack (I am converting a tractor to electric, plus I have already used the leaf battery pack).
I am planning on using the Thunderstruck BMS (ideally with LiFePO batteries) - but this means some sort of BMS / VCU integration.
I have an old leaf BMS unit (from a 2011 model), but if I change battery chemistry I will need to "program" the leaf BMS (another challenge!).

The Thunderstruck BMS provides me with a programmable BMS (so I should be able to use LiFePO batteries) - most of the other options seem to focus on Tesla S or X batteries (SimpBMS etc?). Then maybe layer the Tunderstruck MCU on top of their BMS sattelite units, and integrate with the Zombieverter.

Anyway, keen to hear if you made good/any progress (before I start buying the extra kit for my project).

[INB3TA]

brining a conversation I started in a discord thread/email into the public (where I really should have started it...)

I too am trying to get a Zombieverter to talk to a Thunderstruck MCU.

Two approaches have been floated.

1. Implement J1939-ish communication in the Zombieverter to allow it to query the Thunderstruck MCU for Voltage and Current information. (Where the Thunderstruck MCU gets the Voltage and Current information from an IVT...)

The support contact at Thunderstruck has shown a willingness to explain the process... However, this is beyond my abilities.

2. Use "ZEVCCS" mode on the Thunderstruck MCU to broadcast Voltage and Current information for the ZombieVerter to read/use.

What is not clear to me here is how to configure the Zombieverter to receive this information from the MCU instead of expecting it from the IVT...

... is it simply a matter of instructing the ZombieVerter to use Leaf (4) for BMS?

[INB3TA]

... so I heard back from support at Thunderstruck.... I am just going to (selectively) quote them here...

Code: Select all

The ZEVCCS feature does use the Orion protocol to communicate between the MCU
and the Fellten CCS controller, so it does make the MCU transmit some info using the 
Orion protocol. But it also re-configures a lot of other stuff related to how the charge 
port is handled.

they went on to say....

Code: Select all

  I highly prefer that people use the J1939 option because it is going to be more complete and easy to support.  

[tom91]

Had a brief look at the manual for the Dilithium. If someone who can code has a setup they could look at getting the comms setup between the Zombie and the Dilithium using the J1939 style comms. There is alot documented but not sure how complete it is.

https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/images ... Manual.pdf

Again all it takes is someone with knowledge of coding, time and a setup to create a branch then a PR so it is available for others.

[INB3TA]

I spent some more time last night reading through the code. It is _more_ approachable than I expected...

At this time, I am planning to use the Thunderstruck MCU/BMS and I would very much like to run with a single IVT. (but worst case, I will just run two.....)

With time... I will clone the vcu codebase, get it compiling and work to see if I can pull something together that is PR worthy.

[INB3TA]

tom91, would you be willing to review? --- am I even remotely headed in the right direction?

https://github.com/damienmaguire/Stm32- ... 2-vcu:TMCU

[INB3TA]

Do I understand correctly that the IVT Voltage reading is used to confirm that the pre-charge process was successful and the contactors can be safely closed?

[tom91]

tom91, would you be willing to review? --- am I even remotely headed in the right direction?

https://github.com/damienmaguire/Stm32- ... 2-vcu:TMCU

Not a shunt type, its a BMS.

[INB3TA]

its a BMS.

yeah, that came to me early this morning. I will try again.

[INB3TA]

After reviewing the Stm32-vcu codebase, and the J1939 spec provided Thunderstruck... and a few back and forth emails with Thunderstruck support... I have concluded that the plan to have the Zombieverter query the Thunderstruck MCU via CAN/J1939 will not work because the only Value that the Thunderstruck MCU makes available from the IVT shunt is Current (Amperes). At this time Voltage, Voltage2, Voltage3, Temperature, Kilowatts, Ampere-Hours, and kiloWatt-hours as measured by the IVT are not available from the Thunderstruck MCU.

quote from Thunderstruck support...

Code: Select all

If the VCU uses the IVT for voltage measurement of the HV circuit then 
it sounds like it really does need to manage its own sensor.

... if you don't want to run two ITV... then you can use one IVT for the Zombieverter and a Hall Effect Current Sensor for the Thunderstruck MCU... which is likely what I will do...

[tom91]

Yea the dilithium system is very strange and tries to do a lot. However the way it does leaves ALOT to be desired from an engineering point of view.

[wimboone]

I have the zombieverter and dilithium mcu bms in my car working together. See my github https://github.com/Wim426F/Stm32-vcu.
DilithiumMCU.cpp. It reads the stats from the MCU over can via RPDO and TPDO. Including the GFM (ground fault monitor) signals as well.
Unrelated to this but I also have implemented EVControls T2C as inverter to zombieverter which can be found in the same repo, I don't have a lot of time to properly do a pull request for both these options to the main zombieverter branch, but i thought I'll just drop this info somewhere.

[INB3TA]

as time allows I will be reviewing... Thank you!