Toyota Prius Gen 2 Inverter Controller

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

I will go wiki hunting instead of asking the obvious question... (give a man a fish )

I wrote 95% of the wiki and all of this current sensor stuff is over my head and not something I'd gotten to in my build yet. You won't find your answer there, or, far as I know, written down anywhere else. This thread contains all the info I've ever seen where it's mentioned. I'm happy to update the wiki if/when I can understand more of a procedure on what to do.

[RetroZero]

I feel the same - way out of my depth with current sensor stuff. Glad there are some professors of electronics to work on them.

[RetroZero]

I will go wiki hunting instead of asking the obvious question... (give a man a fish )

I wrote 95% of the wiki and all of this current sensor stuff is over my head and not something I'd gotten to in my build yet. You won't find your answer there, or, far as I know, written down anywhere else. This thread contains all the info I've ever seen where it's mentioned. I'm happy to update the wiki if/when I can understand more of a procedure on what to do.

So found out that the resolver is made by Singlsyn - variable reluctance brushless resolver. Doesn't help with knowing if it is linked to a quadrature encoder. If anyone has the answer, I bow in humble gratitude.

[arber333]

So found out that the resolver is made by Singlsyn - variable reluctance brushless resolver. Doesn't help with knowing if it is linked to a quadrature encoder. If anyone has the answer, I bow in humble gratitude.

Any photo?

[ZooKeeper]

If you're running the "sine" software i.e. induction motor you can indeed do away with the current sensors. They'll only serve informational purpose and overload protection is done by Toyotas hardware.

If you want to run FOC you'll need current sensors of course.

I'll take that as gospel and continue!

Thanks!

[RetroZero]

So just to make sure I understand, Prius has Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor, thus NOT induction. So need FOC and current sensors to run the Gen 2 inverter and transaxle?

[johu]

Yes indeed. Didn't read all messages so didn't know you were using the Transaxle

[jnsaff]

Would either of these be suitable as the current sensors?

I’ve been offered them at a fairly reasonable price.

https://www.lem.com/sites/default/files ... w_sd02.pdf

https://www.lem.com/sites/default/files ... _s_124.pdf

[SciroccoEV]

Would either of these be suitable as the current sensors?

I’ve been offered them at a fairly reasonable price.

Less than £1 each?

[jnsaff]

Is that what they’re worth or is this the benchmark for other solutions?

[RetroZero]

Yes indeed. Didn't read all messages so didn't know you were using the Transaxle

I have yet to find a complete build with Gen 2 transaxle to understand all the additional parts . Will look into current sensors this weekend and try to understand FOC.

[SciroccoEV]

Is that what they’re worth or is this the benchmark for other solutions?

You already have built in current sensors. All you need is to make their output compatible with the input of your chosen control board. That's about £1 worth of op-amp circuit.

[konstantin8818]

Would either of these be suitable as the current sensors?

I’ve been offered them at a fairly reasonable price.

https://www.lem.com/sites/default/files ... w_sd02.pdf

https://www.lem.com/sites/default/files ... _s_124.pdf

They are low frequency - 70Hz. Does current sensor need to operate at frecuency of phase it sitting on for correct measuring?

[johu]

Yes bandwidth should be a multiple of control loop frequency which is 8.8kHz

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

I have a meta question. To be clear, it's not a complaint or criticism, I'm just trying to understand the big picture.

Correct me if I'm wrong with my understanding too.

So, the Prius Gen 2 inverter has 3 current sensors on the inverter.

Johannes' Open Inverter software is designed for, and somewhat needs (or in some cases can be workarounded) some form of current sensor. As probably any inverter would.

Damien then built these Prius Gen 2 Blue Pill logic boards, hoping to help beginners by avoiding avoid the SMT parts like the early Gen 3 boards had because the Blue Pill has an integrated STM32 chip rather than having to solder the STM32 directly. But the Blue Pill is kind of limited, but maybe not in ways that matter that much. And is a dead-end for development anyway.

The Prius Gen 2 logic boards are not compatible with the Prius Gen 2 inverter. My question is... why?

I had some ideas:

1 - This was an early development board, and that's an advanced thing he was going to update in the future.
2 - There are some technical reasons he didn't want those things on this board. They would always be handled elsewhere.
3 - He made a mistake or just didn't know enough details about the board when he built these.
4 - There are limitations with this board/Blue Pill/whatever that didn't allow it.
5 - I'm sure many other possibilities.

Regardless, this is back to black magic for me, so to be useful, a procedural solution would be best. Something those of us with limited knowledge can just follow without having to know anything.

... and I know that this whole Blue Pill thing is a dead-end development, so, it's not worth a lot of effort, but now that there's 4(?) of us working on it, us all being on the same page would be helpful so each of us knows what to expect.

[SciroccoEV]

So, the Prius Gen 2 inverter has 3 current sensors on the inverter.

Just for starters, there are TWO sensors per inverter (MG1 & MG2)

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

Just for starters, there are TWO sensors per inverter (MG1 & MG2)

Why only 2? Because you can infer the 3rd from knowing the 2?

[arber333]

Just for starters, there are TWO sensors per inverter (MG1 & MG2)

Why only 2? Because you can infer the 3rd from knowing the 2?

Generaly yes, but this means you need to allocate more processing power to this task.
Lebowski says his controler could run on two sensors, but any ground noise or emi echo is added on the missing sensor phase.
With three sensors start is much smoother.

A

[ZooKeeper]

post deleted

[Kevin Sharpe]

More information on the Gen2 Inverter - Converter.

This is great Could you update the wiki please?

[RetroZero]

Thanks for the questions MattsAwesomeStuff, it's blurry for me too. Probably because I am not from an electrical backround, so 'simple mans' langauge from you is helping me understand.

[RetroZero]

Here is a link to Prius resolver manufacturer. They mention sine/cosine signal to converter smartcoder. Is this the encoder then?

http://www.garnet.it/en/toyota-prius-hy ... pTSa_gzZPY

I'm confused, Gen 2 MG2 requires FOC and current sensors additional circuits, or modify the outputs to match the inputs on Analog to Digital Converter?

[arber333]

I'm confused, Gen 2 MG2 requires FOC and current sensors additional circuits, or modify the outputs to match the inputs on Analog to Digital Converter?

Well i am not sure why, but Prius inverter uses 2x AU6802 chips under the main board. I like them because they can provide signal from resolver and convert it either to ABZ signal or UVW commutation signal. Nice all around chip.
http://www.garnet.it/en/products/motion ... pTgl_0zaUn

Johannes inverter uses signal from resolver directly. No need to convert it again...

[ZooKeeper]

post deleted

[RetroZero]

1. So Resolver signal is sorted by 'Brainboard Rev 3' , that's awesome news siroccoEV.

2. For the current sensors, < bandwidth should be a multiple of control loop frequency which is 8.8kHz>?
Trying to keep up with the posts, hope this is not related to the resolver and that it is the modification to carry out on the Brainboard to use the existing Inverter Current sensors.

If these 2 statements are correct I will attempt to update the wiki (seems a few more hands on deck could help)
Since we are officially confined untill 11 May, I hope to get this transaxle spinning, and more importantly, understand how