Audi A2 Prius Gen2 - huh again?

[johu]

So here we go again. Like I might have mentioned elsewhere my friend Thomas as an infinite stack auf A2s in his back yard and we have pretty much committed to converting another one.

The USP here is that it will be almost an exact copy of the first one So we want to find out how quickly we can pull this off on a known car with most parts pre-ordered and pre-fabricated.

Some things will be different though:
- Larger batteries. 30 or 40 kWh Leaf would be an obvious choice but I'm sure there is better bang for the buck available
- Proper battery box
- CCS fast charging

I'm not super keen on opening up the gear box. I would think when the input shaft is not locked MG1 shouldn't be spinning at all. I don't want to experiment with it as performance of MG2 is good enough for cruising. Only thing I would consider is removing MG1 rotor and stator as well the planet gear rubbish for some weight saving.

So, more importantly which 400V/30kWh-ish batteries are on the market ?

[arber333]

So here we go a gain. Like I might have mentioned elsewhere my friend Thomas as an infinite stack auf A2s in his back yard and we have pretty much committed to converting another one.
......

So, more importantly which 400V/30kWh-ish batteries are on the market ?

Hyundai 96S
Ioniq 38kwh
Kona 40kwh

VW 88S
Golf-E 36kWh
E-UP 35kWh

[Bigpie]

This is going to be cool, though different battery might add more time for integration.

I think there's a DBC the covers the BMS master messages for the VW. It's all in German but that's not a problem for you.

[johu]

This is going to be cool, though different battery might add more time for integration.

I think there's a DBC the covers the BMS master messages for the VW. It's all in German but that's not a problem for you.

Yes absolutely. If I manage to swap an MEB battery into Touran by then I could just use its 40 kWh Leaf pack which is mechanically identical.

[crasbe]

Is this the start of a dedicated Audi A2 conversion business?

The first one took months, the second one weeks and every further one only days

[johu]

Yeah why not The chassis can't rot and most owners are rather ecologically minded.

Arber was asking somewhere else about the TÜV battery bumper distances.
Sides: 200mm, front 420mm, rear 300mm

The way I did it in the first A2 conversion by far exceeds these distances because the battery is in the middle.

[arber333]

Yeah why not The chassis can't rot and most owners are rather ecologically minded.

Arber was asking somewhere else about the TÜV battery bumper distances.
Sides: 200mm, front 420mm, rear 300mm

The way I did it in the first A2 conversion by far exceeds these distances because the battery is in the middle.

I am sure i would find space to put in much more kWh .
Say does that requirement about distances include heater, charger, DCDC and inverter components?

[johu]

No, just the batteries

Thing is, the car is so aerodynamic that it doesn't need a whole lot of energy storage. I reckon carefully driven it could go 400 km with a 40 kWh (usable) battery

[modellfan]

Hyundai 96S
Ioniq 38kwh
Kona 40kwh

VW 88S
Golf-E 36kWh
E-UP 35kWh

BMW i3 32kWH and 40kwh working with simpbms are maybe also worth a look.

[crasbe]

I'm not super keen on opening up the gear box. I would think when the input shaft is not locked MG1 shouldn't be spinning at all. I don't want to experiment with it as performance of MG2 is good enough for cruising. Only thing I would consider is removing MG1 rotor and stator as well the planet gear rubbish for some weight saving.

While I still think it would be interesting to see MG1 and MG2 working together, the weight saving of removing MG1 is interesting as well. But I'm not sure it would have much of a measureable benefit.

But at least you have a comprehensive video on how to assemble the gearbox again from Weber State University on YouTube
And considering that you can get a Prius 2 gearbox for less than 250€ delivered from Lithuania or Poland, the risk is quite low.

[Bigpie]

While I still think it would be interesting to see MG1 and MG2 working together.

^^^ This

[arber333]

No, just the batteries

Thing is, the car is so aerodynamic that it doesn't need a whole lot of energy storage. I reckon carefully driven it could go 400 km with a 40 kWh (usable) battery

OK, OK lets not get carried away here. Myself i tried to drive slowly and carefully back in 2014 and;
a. I would immediately became road hazard as everyone wanted to overtake me;
b. there are so much hills near me that even driving slow cost about the same energy;

I recommend at least the same emotor power into the car that the dinosaur juice eater had before.
Aerodynamics is really good with some cars and A2 being a bit illogical as it is so high. However it is very light and underside is completely closed. We have seen what that would accomplish in Prius and Ioniq.
I read about Audi experimenting with some fish shape when designing A2 .

[geduxaz]

I have some A2s waiting... Have not build a garage yet
sorry if i missed. what motor you will use for these? Prius Gen2? these are really cheap

[Gregski]

will we be seeing a Prius Gen 2 motor/inverter mounting kit for the Audi A2 in 2024 ?

[johu]

Well, some say this project might not be dead. After a cooldown phase from the frustration with the first A2 conversion Thomas is now keen to tackle this again. We had a phone call over this yesterday. Here's what we would improve:

- Completely close the underside
- Better sealing at the top
- proper crimp tool
- Cut off VW connectors and crimp cables directly to where they are needed (i.e. the Prius controller)
- Do not remove the rear seats
- Place battery under rear seats and under trunk
- More battery capacity, at least 30 kWh usable
- Add Foccci

The plan is still to collect/prepare all parts and then do 90% of the conversion within a week or so. Remind me of it

[Gregski]

Videos or it didn't happen!

[johu]

In todays episode: Johannes buys a Prius transmission for 160€ delivered

[Bigpie]

Using MG1 + MG2 this time?

[arber333]

In todays episode: Johannes buys a Prius transmission for 160€ delivered

Just t throw a wrench to your Prius plans...

1. Outlander motor and gearbox for 120€ for about 80kW OEM power
https://rrr.lt/en/used-part/ddo32084-f1 ... fferential

2. Outlander inverter for 80€
https://rrr.lt/en/used-part/bns4594-941 ... r-inverter

3. Outlander charger for about 80€ minus shipping
https://rrr.lt/en/used-part/fom111366-w ... r-inverter

4. Outlander heater for 130€
https://rrr.lt/en/used-part/lfc96278-78 ... r-inverter

If you would put more effort and combine all parts from one single car you could reduce shipping further...
You could use VCU with CAN bus directly or as Romale showed you could use Openinverter brain for 115kW power!!!

[johu]

Actually my neighbor still has all these Outlander parts that he never used... Will chew on that but actually the plan was to repeat as much as possible from the previous conversion.
But agree that these are better components

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

Videos or it didn't happen!

Shush.

Video slows progress by at least 50-90%.

Let him get his 2nd one done.

Because, once you've done 2 conversions of the same vehicle, I mean you're basically just throwing your time and money away if you don't do a 3rd, 4th and 5th. You've already built the rails for the learning curve.

And then, well, he'll just start adding more features...

[crasbe]

I have an Outlander RDU and Outlander Inverter that I don't need anymore, also a Prius 2 inverter.
The former two you could have for a very reasonable price, the latter for free.

Let me know if you're interested, I can even drop it off at your place when driving to my partner next time.

[johu]

Sorry, missed this one. I now have a Prius 2 inverter and transmission and my neighbor has an Outlander inverter, charger and motor. So have all the choice. You can drop by nonetheless

I'm going through our "battery database" and am having a hard time to find matching modules.

The volume below the rear seats is WxLxH 670 760x300x220 and that doesn't play well with typical VDA module size of 360-390x150x110. I could stack 4 in there. The rear volume should be a bit better, I don't have measurements but would guess 600x600x220 so good enough for 8 modules.

The Stellantis packs have 18 modules 6S of which I could fit 12. So I'd be at 250V, way too low for the Prius system

I could fit a Passat or Golf GTE pack but 9 kWh is too little. Even toying the idea of going back to prismatic cells. Any ideas?

Update: just discovered the width of the compartment would be 760mm, not 670! That opens more options

[marcexec]

The Dacia Spring one that was recently discussed maybe and the newer BMW PHEV packs have nearly doubled the capacity in very similar form factor.

[johu]

Spring battery sounds good, is it at least 96S? Couldn't find much details

EDIT:

Too low on voltage