Mid to long range camper bus as first project - bad idea?

[roepel]

Hi openinverter community,

first of all I'd like to express my appreciation for the work and documentation you already achieved. I was immediately drawn into fascination when I first stumbled upon openinverter. In this initial phase of fascination I started cultivating the idea of maybe converting an older camper van (eg. 2000 VW T4 as a holiday / surf trip car), but slowly some reality-check and decisions are to be made.

I read through quite some information here and the openinverter Volvo 850 conversion book. However my vehicle use case seemingly varies from the book and many community members, casting up some doubt wether I should really commit.

Main hurdles:
1. To bring up actual benefit, the camper van would need to be converted in a long-range-ish configuration. I aim for 300+ km driving range and CCS fast charge is a must I think. A typical trip would be like 400 - 1000 km one way.
2. I need quite some space inside, i.e. long wheelbase...
3. I cannot spend too much money just for the joy of conversion, passing TÜV and at least some reliability are prerequisites

However I dont need to go fast. Typical 100 to 110 on motorways would be sufficient, optimally 120 to 130 max speed, nor do I need the most complete and posh camper interieur, I plan on a light DIY bed, a small stove, something to sit on...thats basically it.

Is it a good idea as for a first conversion? I estimate I'd need to get hold of and fit around 70-80 kWh of battery (500 kg + ?), for a reasonable price, besides all the other requirements. Im afraid that I might get in trouble with weight limits (a typical T4 long wheelbase already has about 2 tons of empty weight I think, with typical overall weight limit being like 2.8 tons without major reinformcements.

What do you think? What could be appropriate donor cars?

Best, roepel

[Jacobsmess]

I'm converting a VW t5, they come on 3.2T variations of needed. A leaf motor stack fits in the engine bay easily l, mine is a flatbed Doka version, so I have enough space for up to 100kwh but first I will install 50kwh then add another pack in parallel or with a change over switch.
My estimations are around 2.5 miles/kWh.

[roepel]

Interesting...T5 was also an option I thought about but as it is once again heavier and has an (at least for me) challenging Canbus to master I favored late T4s recently.
What type of battery pack are you are planning to use?

[johu]

The T5 most likely has the same CAN protocol as my Touran https://openinverter.org/wiki/VW_Touran_Conversion . But of course if you find a good T4, why not. Also the 2002 date for EMC testing is considered by some testers.

The battery is obviously the largest single cost item, I always got mine from Scandinavia, like so: https://www.bruktdel.no/nbf/S%C3%B8k/?q ... 8yspenning . One in the list is 5000€. Of course you can replace "ID.4" by any other model. VW modules are nice to work with. For smooth rapid charging liquid cooling seems mandatory.

You should really enjoy what you're doing, otherwise you're likely to give up. Then rather look for a used eVito or something.
Talk to someone at TÜV before starting so that you're on the same page. I mean a station that is known for inspecting conversions. All others just look at you like you're some sort of alien.

[roepel]

Okay nice, thanks for your insights. Regarding TÜV I got 1-2 cadidates that at least were quite approachable to DIY soutions with older diesel/petrol cars and campers. I'll go ahead confronting them with Merkblatt 764, before starting to work on any conversion.

So while using a wreck Nissan Leaf + used VW battery, to convert an appropriate acceptor van appears to be an well-explored, cost efficient and worthwhile choice, regarding CCS implementation I assume there is no well-trodden path yet? I read about the Chademo adapters but with a large battery I'd assume trying to implement a native CCS to make use of the higher charge currents would be better, right?

[johu]

regarding CCS implementation I assume there is no well-trodden path yet?

Of course! Foccci
Our marketing department needs to work harder

https://openinverter.org/shop/index.php ... duct_id=79

[roepel]

Haha alright, I see that the limits are only set by my own motivation and maybe budget then

[Jacobsmess]

One thing of note, with a van you have the benefit of space and mounting options that you don't with a car.

[anupraj]

Hello Everyone,
I’m also planning an EV conversion project and found this discussion very inspiring.

For long trips like 500-800 km, do you think it's better to focus on optimizing battery efficiency or adding more battery capacity?

Regards,
Anup.

[Jacobsmess]

Hello Everyone,
I’m also planning an EV conversion project and found this discussion very inspiring.

For long trips like 500-800 km, do you think it's better to focus on optimizing battery efficiency or adding more battery capacity?

Regards,
Anup.

What do you mean by battery efficiency?
To make up the required range you'll need both.
Opt for the smallest/lightest/most aerodynamic base vehicle that is still usable for your needs, use the most efficient drivettrain setup that you can feasibly fit into the vehicle and then install the maximum battery pack size you can in the vehicle whilst keeping it safe and legal.

Oh and avoid off road tyres and external hanging elements to reduce drag.

[anupraj]

Thank you for the detailed reply.
I meant getting more range from the same charge by improving energy use or the drivetrain.

Your tips about picking an aerodynamic vehicle and efficient setup are really helpful. I’ll focus on those.

[uhi22]

I do not want to kill the idea of creating a vehicle which drives 1000km without charge, but there are regions where it is fine to charge each 200km, so concentrating on a well-cooled, fast charging capable battery instead of a really big one could be an alternative solution. Of course not in all corners of the world.

[modellfan]

Interesting project. I am having something similar in my mind for some years now, driving a T4. My conclusion is, I would never convert a T4. They are or are getting all rust buckets missing zinc coating. And they can not be upgraded in total weight. A T5 / T6 can be upgraded to 3.5t. I am pretty sure in a long wheel base you can put two id.4 packs each 80kwh or in other words 24 battery modules. At a pessimistic 30kwh/100km this will give a 500km+ range. Thats the real max you can get out of such a van imho.

[mrfred]

On a daily basis, I drive an electric car with a range of about 300-340 km. We have, on a few occasions, gone on vacation trips of up to 1100 km. Since we have small children, it often works perfectly to drive in stages of 200-250 km. We stop, charge, stretch our legs, and have lunch, dinner, or a coffee.

With good planning, so that one or two charging stops are combined with other activities, such as a meal break, charging doesn't feel like an inconvenient wait.

Speed, rolling resistance, and air drag have a big impact on range. On my old Tesla Model S, it makes a huge difference to the range whether the average speed is 80, 100, or 120 km/h. There is also quite a difference between 19" and 21" wheels.

I don't think it's an impossible project, but it might be more realistic to aim for a real-world range of 250+ km and CCS charging? I believe this would work perfectly with proper travel planning, without charging stops ruining the experience?