[WIP] Leaf to VW Type 2 Campervan

[PaulHeystee]

Well if this BMS of yours comes to life let me know more. Where abouts are you based?

I am located in The Netherlands

[T1Terry]

By my calcs, Leaf motor stack is 100kg (not incl battery) vs 160kg for VW incl 50% full fuel tank, plus all the other gubbins I don’t need.

Then battery on top which is still to be defined but you can see roughly where I’m at if battery is say 300kg -TBC

If I could wave my arms and it just happened, yes underfloor would be great. But in my real world I’m happy with placing under bench seat and behind front seat bulkheads. Should be good horizontal position if a little higher than ideal.

This is a T2, so handling and performance are not the goal here!

The weight over the front axle and wheels will be the issue, the steering becomes so heavy, parking becomes a major work out and forget about trying to negotiate shopping centre car parks ..... you will need some sort of steering assist. Even if you can strong arm the steering, it wrecks the steering box and tears the steering box mounting holes out in the chassis rail resulting in a clunk when trying to turn or ever keeping it in a straight line .... To get an idea of what I mean, put wide tyres on the front and see just how heavy the steering gets, it's the same affect as when you add even a bit of weight to the front axle .....

T1 Terry

[ianlighting]

The weight over the front axle and wheels will be the issue, the steering becomes so heavy, parking becomes a major work out and forget about trying to negotiate shopping centre car parks ..... you will need some sort of steering assist. Even if you can strong arm the steering, it wrecks the steering box and tears the steering box mounting holes out in the chassis rail resulting in a clunk when trying to turn or ever keeping it in a straight line .... To get an idea of what I mean, put wide tyres on the front and see just how heavy the steering gets, it's the same affect as when you add even a bit of weight to the front axle .....

T1 Terry

Ok, worth bearing that in mind, thanks for the input. I have already thought about adding power steering, just not got to the details yet.

I have a disaster bus to play with to test things out before I am committed to any particular build on my proper bus.

[ianlighting]

So it’s been a long frustrating summer of no action. Mainly because I watched the courier tracking of my adaptors and couplers coming over from Canada, landing in Coventry… before UK customs decided to post it back to sender… aargh.

Then had to wait for it to get re delivered, which it finally did a couple days ago.

What can I say, sh!t happens I guess.

Then main thing is the stuff looks good quality. I asked Brat to also weld my clutch centre to his standard issue Leaf coupler to make the finished item as I had no luck with local metal workshops in my area.

So I’ve started sizing things up, which I’ll add in separate posts…

[ianlighting]

Trying it on for size…

I knew things would be tight in the engine bay. There’s actually plenty of space, just not necessarily in all the right places…

The only way to know what options I had was to try it for real and I held off getting stuck into it until my motor adaptor plates arrived this week.

Step 1, (just loosely in place, not fitted yet) adaptor plate and coupler (Brat Industries)

Note, the VW transmission shaft will still need to be shortened approx 10mm. I’ll measure exactly what works when I cut it.

Next, and this was always the bit I was unsure would work, is to place the Leaf PDM (top third of the motor stack) onto the shelf left after removal of the petrol tank. It fits in there, and note this is rotated 90deg from its original placement on the motor.

But would this still allow enough space for the motor and inverter to slide up close enough to the vw transmission?

The answer to this is no!

Hard to tell from the photos, but the motor needs to move forward approx 100mm to mate to the transmission, and the PDM prevents that.

Not a disaster as I half expected that to be the answer. But I need to decide on the path to take…

1 - place to the left of the motor. Problem 1 - no room, but there would be if the spare wheel arch above was removed. But even if that happened, there are no existing bolt holes in that space that I could use to mount it to.

2 - raise the parcel shelf above the engine bay by about 100mm. That would allow the PDM to return to its natural home at the top of the motor stack. Benefit - less HV wiring that I need to route between PDM and inverter. Problem - adding more weight to the rear. Problem 2 - it means the rock and roll bed would not be flush with the parcel shelf which means I need to consider the height of the seat and reduced head height.

2b - if I’m even considering raising the parcel shelf, perhaps I can go back to the original plan / hope that it could fit in the fuel tank shelf. Benefit - less weight on the motor. Benefit 2 - that shelf has bolt holes and more of the weight is placed over the axle.

3 - perhaps move the vertical (slightly angled) engine compartment section that is in front of the PDM forward a bit might work. For some reason this bother me more than raising the parcel shelf up. But it avoids the complication of the raised parcel shelf, and retains the other benefits of placing in the fuel tank shelf. But am I breaking the EV conversion rules of no cutting?


Other considerations that need to go in the mix include the water cooling pump and pipes.

What will I actually do? Ignore it for a while. When faced with sub optimal paths I like to leave it to my subconscious to chew on it for a while.

So next step will be to put the PDM in the passenger space with the original Leaf battery pack, just as a test, with the motor mounted to the transmission to see what other problems occur.


If anyone reading in UK, familiar with the no cutting rules has an opinion on option 3 (or 2), I’d be happy to hear it.

[tom91]

If anyone reading in UK, familiar with the no cutting rules has an opinion on option 3 (or 2), I’d be happy to hear it.

No cutting or welding or drilling to the body/chassis allowed.

[ianlighting]

No cutting or welding or drilling to the body/chassis allowed.

Thanks, although I know that much! I’m going to get hold of the regs to understand the detail of what it says.

[ianlighting]

Cont…

Option 4 has occurred to me. The disaster bus that I’m playing with had a 1600cc engine like the majority of them had. My final bus I intend to electrify is an 1800cc. These later T2s with the type4 1800 - 2000cc engines have a very useful hatch in the roof of the engine bay. Quite large. Will it be in exactly the right place above the motor to allow the extra headroom for the PDM? Hard to guesstimate it without trying for real given all the awkward shapes involved. But it’s possible.

Also, I seem to remember that Mr Flying Tools created his own lid to his PDM for his VW Golf conversion which saved a bit of space aswell, so that’s worthy of more investigation aswell.

BTW - the apparent engine hatch in my photos is a hacked out hole I made myself. It’s not the same shape or size as the main 1800 bus.

[tom91]

Thanks, although I know that much! I’m going to get hold of the regs to understand the detail of what it says.

No cutting welding or drilling of the monocoque/chassis of the vehicle. This is literally what it says. Best bit it gets to be interpreted by the DVLA/inspector however they want.

[WillK]

Have you thought about ditching the pdm and using a more compact dc-dc and charger, or does the resolve controller limit you to the pdm? Zombieverter?

[Jacobsmess]

Mr Flying Tools created his own lid to his PDM for his VW Golf conversion which saved a bit of space aswell

Do you have anpinknfor this, I'd be interested in reducing the leaf pdm size. I also think the later pdms ought be slightly more compact and potentially also still mate up to the inverter the same way. It might be worth investigating.

[ianlighting]

Do you have anpinknfor this, I'd be interested in reducing the leaf pdm size. I also think the later pdms ought be slightly more compact and potentially also still mate up to the inverter the same way. It might be worth investigating.

I think this is the first episode where his different lid appears. But he does not really discuss it, only a v brief comment. He did it for cosmetic reasons to make it look like the original electric Golf.



But you make an interesting point about later PDMs being a different size. But then I need to re-familiarise myself with the compatibility of different generations with the Resolve-EV VCU.

[ianlighting]

Have you thought about ditching the pdm and using a more compact dc-dc and charger, or does the resolve controller limit you to the pdm? Zombieverter?

My whole approach with this build is to make it ‘simple’ and therefore successful. Of course, nothing is ever simple and every compromise generates its own set of problems. But yes, Resolve-EV controller expects a fully Leaf based system. Pros and cons there, but I do like the approach of using a set of OEM stuff that works well together.

[PaulHeystee]

The lid on that Golf's PDM is home made, if you look at his other videos you will see he has the Gen3/4 PDM cover plus the square box on top of it.

I am surprised to read that not all BMSs work, I converted a Daihatsu Rocky with a 40 kWh BMS and it worked fine with the Resolve EV controller. A friend of mine converted his Renault Estafette with a Leaf motor stack using a Resolve EV controller and a 62 kWh Leaf battery, this also works fine.

At this moment I am still working on the Leaf BMS emulator BMS that works the Peugeot e208 battery modules. As soon as I have it up and running I will let it know.

[ianlighting]

I am surprised to read that not all BMSs work, I converted a Daihatsu Rocky with a 40 kWh BMS and it worked fine with the Resolve EV controller. A friend of mine converted his Renault Estafette with a Leaf motor stack using a Resolve EV controller and a 62 kWh Leaf battery, this also works fine.

At this moment I am still working on the Leaf BMS emulator BMS that works the Peugeot e208 battery modules. As soon as I have it up and running I will let it know.

I think it may be more of a question about the modules used with the Leaf BMS. I read lots of discussion but not really a definitive understanding. I watch the Nissan Leaf forums where they discuss new Chinese battery upgrades and there’s always lots of discussion about what works or doesn’t.

Really, my objective will be to get 60kWh-ish capacity and whether the logic of a Leaf BMS from a 24kWh battery (the one I have is actually 30kWh) will balance the cells properly. It’s always good to hear of other successes, but the devil is in the detail and that’s sometimes hard to find.

The latest Flying Tools episode (yesterday) he mentions wanting to find a 62kWh Leaf BMS, because he thinks his range is limited by his 50kWh VW ID modules working with his stock Leaf BMS (assume 24kWh, but I can’t remember for sure). I think the implication is he is not being allowed to use the full amount of available capacity.

I’d happily use Leaf OEM 62kWh battery, but they are expensive - £8500.

Also, should I want one, I know you can get brand new Nisssan 62kWh BMS from EVs Enhanced (NZ), so that’s another thread.

Too many variables

[ianlighting]

Yep! That all works then!

It goes forward. It goes backwards.

It even wheel spins in 3rd gear which is an unusual experience in a T2

This is a complete lash up as you can tell from the photos. It’ll never be road legal, but it proves to me what I need to do next on the main bus.

As you can see from the side photo, the PDM is just sat in the passenger section cos is doesn’t fit in the engine bay.

In my attempt to find a solution to my space problem I came across some unusual (to me at least) Leaf PDMs on eBay from EV Breakers . I’m used to the original shape with the silvery domed lid. Then I’ve seen the square black lid version, but what is this one….? Can someone with some knowledge confirm this is from a Leaf? Even better would be some height dimensions! It seems to have all the connections you’d expect to see.

EBay link

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256610955705 ... 0e1ce0966d

[Romale]

Can someone with some knowledge confirm this is from a Leaf? Even better would be some height dimensions! It seems to have all the connections you’d expect to see.

277BBA9C-20A9-4219-93AD-B1EDE385B1DC.jpeg


EBay link

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256610955705 ... 0e1ce0966d

Toyota!!!

[ianlighting]

Toyota!!!

Screenshot_2024-10-25-16-51-21-18_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba480b12.jpg

Yeah I know! It’s a bit weird. But it’s a similar shape to the Leaf PDM I’m familiar with, and the connections seem to be in the right place. Hunting that part code just brings me back to the eBay shop.

This other item from the same people has some much better close ups.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256602969791 ... R-yhnb_YZA

[Bratitude]

Yep! That all works then!

It goes forward. It goes backwards.

Yee haw! It drives! Possible to post or send me a closer up photo of the engine bay?

Can someone with some knowledge confirm this is from a Leaf? Even better would be some height dimensions! It seems to have all the connections you’d expect to see.

277BBA9C-20A9-4219-93AD-B1EDE385B1DC.jpeg

Yup it’s the latest leaf pdm. But can control of it is not confirmed

[ianlighting]

Yee haw! It drives! Possible to post or send me a closer up photo of the engine bay?


Yup it’s the latest leaf pdm. But can control of it is not confirmed

Yeah, no problem Angus.

Hmmm, well this could be interesting and possibly dig me out of my self imposed hole. All depends on the height. I’ll have to ask Isak what he thinks.

[ianlighting]

Engine bay close ups, as request by Mr Brat Industries, purveyor of the world’s finest adaptor plates and transmission couplers.


Yes, that is a bracket made out of wood. What’s the problem?
It’s just a little extra bracing. The rear ‘moustache bar’ (rear engine mount) is designed to take a heavier weight from the petrol engine, and as I’m only doing 15 mph max in my driveway, it’s fine.

Looking down. Top of the photo was plan A - to put the PDM in that ex-petrol tank space. Didn’t work.

Side shot of Brat’s finest

BTW - saving the Brat supplied nylon nuts for motor mounting for the final bus. These nuts are just for the temporary disaster-bus testing.

[PaulHeystee]

Why not move the motor more back, away from the gearbox? It looks like there is enough room.

[ianlighting]

Why not move the motor more back, away from the gearbox? It looks like there is enough room.

It would probably need a 150mm tunnel to make sufficient space for the PDM, plus the coupler then would need replacing with a new one about 200mm long to bridge the gap. That’s a lot of potential for wobble.

What I like about the current fit with the Brat adaptors is they are a very nice tight fit.

But I’m open to all ideas.

[PaulHeystee]

On the Daihatsu Rocky I made a longer tunnel just to keep the motor and PDM clear of the firewall. This worked fine.
I welded on the center of the clutch plate to a tube which had the input shaft of the Leaf gearbox welded onto it.
As there is little to no vibration the shaft simply stayed in place without wobbling of vibrating.

However, I guess BratIndustries could make a longer shaft, on request. Otherwise I know someone who might also be able to make it for you.

For the extension you could simply add more alu plates, sandwiched onto each other.

[PaulHeystee]

Here some pictures