Electric Falcon

[tom91]

have altered the harness to account for their removal

You done more then that if your OBD port is dead.

[jrbe]

Start with getting the OBDII? / diagnostics plug working. Might be missing 12v, ground, a secondary connector for can / communications, etc.

[Falcemach1]

I have confirmed that there is no problem with either the 12 volt power supply or grounds on the OBD connector . I will check for power to be switched on by the run start relay#2 in the BJB . I suspect the BCM is not grounding the relay. Perhaps I should try to bypass the BCM and see if the system will turn on ?

[tom91]

bypass the BCM and see if the system will turn on ?

Do you have any wiring diagrams for the MachE if the OBD port gets power and the connected gateway is powered it should atleast talkback. At this state you are best off trying to find someone who knows the MachE in and out and get onsite support to resolve your basic problems to start.

[jrbe]

I'd suggest not trying to bypass things to get them to turn on. You could unintentionally short things out and newer systems can get weird if they are forced on. Might mean extra trouble codes or locked up modules but hard to say for sure.

If you have verified the OBDII port gets power and ground the next step is to trace the communication wires to whatever module it connects to and verify that is getting power(s) , ground(s). Then check the key fob system, verify that is all powered and plugged in.
Battery in the key good?

Have you verified your scanner works on other vehicles, or ideally a working Mach E?
Last I remember there were 3 different methods of OBDII communication, maybe yours isn't compatible with the Mach E?

Do you have a cheap OBDII to WiFi / Bluetooth that works with a cheap cell phone scanner? You could consider this route as a double check / might get some info to start with,
https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads ... ata.33211/

[muehlpower]

I haven't read everything, but you described that a 120Ohm resistor on the gateway had no effect. That tells me that the CAN bus doesn't reach there, then OBD can't work either.

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

I installed a section of the rear subframe into my Falcon and fastened the drive motor in place. I removed the floor from the Falcon and built a new perimeter frame and fitted t he entire battery pack which has the BECM and HVBJB
built into it .I fitted the Mach-e floor to my car and built a structure to support the charger, DC/DC , AC compressor and auxiliary battery. I fitted the HVAC unit to the car and installed the Mach-e touch screen ,dash panel and the gateway module, sync module , audio unit and telematics
module.

Impressive work

I deleted the supplimental restraints system, .... impact severity sensors .

I would bet a significant amount that these two are a big part of your issue. Those are the kind of things that OEMs almost certainly have their drivetrain check in with. Try reconnecting them.

[Falcemach1]

The mystery continues. I verified that I have a functional scanner as it works on another car . I checked for power to the gateway it is OK .The wiring goes directly from the OBD connector to the gateway and although I thought I might try powering the relay in the BJB, I find that the BCM actually does activate the relay when the start button is pushed . I really don't know where to go from here. I do have an old OTC Visions labs scope which I connected to the HS 1 CAN bus and it reads a fluctuating voltage from plus 1 volts to minus 1 volts . This is rather low and confusing. I really don't know where to go . I guess I need to look at the SAVVYCAN.

[jrbe]

It's great you have a scope. Are you able to share a picture of what this can bus signal trace looks like on that as well as how things are connected to the scope?
2v difference is within can specs but I'm not sure what's normal for a Mach E.

But the negative voltage part is odd unless you meant from their mid point. Might need some more details on this.

Have you added a termination resistor to this diagnostic line? Might be worth at least temporarily removing it to see if the differential voltage comes up some if you did.

When you say the scanner works on another car, was it a Mach E or just something OBDII?

[tom91]

Best way forward, get another MachE and start comparing how things work.

[Falcemach1]

The tried the scanner on a car other than a Mach-e. The scope I was using is an antique. I ordered a new unit as well as a different scanner too.
I will reconnect a number of the deleted modules and retest the system . I will post results with the new scope when i get it connected. A note:
I also bought a Veepeak OBD-II Scan tool and downloaded a Forscan program to my laptop and it refuses to work either!! I will keep everyone updated

[Falcemach1]

I'm still working at my problem but have had no success . I tried reconnecting the Image processing module and the supplemental restraint
module and still the system does not turn on. I purchased a new scanner and it doesn't work either. I also bought a new lab scope but , need to figure out the programming . I also contacted "Just Answers" and spoke to a mechanic ,who informed me as to where the the terminal resistors are and, I have them all. I will next reconnect the pedestrian alert control module and drivers status module and see if they make any difference. Is there any way to determine if the HVBJB is actually at fault?

[tom91]

Get a working car so you have a known working system to compare and measure against. Or an Auto Electrician who has work on MachEs before.

[jrbe]

Is there any way to determine if the HVBJB is actually at fault?

A few things. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this, the high voltage distribution box distributes high voltage. The modules, or most of them and communication should still wake up with high voltage disconnected.

Or is there something else in there that you mean?

Are you sure your trimming of harnesses didn't short out or disconnect at least 1 important thing?

As Tom says, a rented / borrowed mach e could help.

[Falcemach1]

I finally figured out the settings for my new scope and saved pictures of the HS CAN 1 and the HS CAN FD .As soon as as I connect the auxiliary battery , a small motor runs continuously in the drive motor . This running motor is creating a waveform that shows up in the HS CAN FD.
The signal I recorded on the HS CAN 1 is duplicated when I unplug the factory connector to the drive motor/ inverter. Why is the gateway active when the start button is not pressed?

[tom91]

Car doing car things. Modern cars have all sorts of power states.

Why is the gateway active when the start button is not pressed?

The fact you are asking this means you have very little knowledge of modern automotive systems, I reiterate get a modern auto electrician in to help you. Or at least to tell you wat he thinks it would take to correct it.

[jrbe]

Vehicle communications can happen with the car "off" as in the typical thinking of older ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicles. These communications are doing things like balancing the battery, making sure components are cool, monitoring charging, sentry mode - cameras watching for vehicles hitting the vehicle, etc. So off does not mean nothing is happening on newer vehicles and EVs.

The CAN waveform showing up is good news. The motor running you mentioned is not directly creating the waveform you are seeing there - meaning its not something like a speed signal. The waveform is digital information and may be from multiple modules all communicating together.

This will be an extremely steep learning curve getting into the communications side of things. Tom's recommendation of getting help is good. This will very likely be painful if you go it alone. Having someone to help get you up to speed a bit as they help will very likely be money well spent.

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

Seeing that there is a waveform on the CAN bus is useful as far as confirming there is activity, but it's really not useful for debugging without doing actual logging that translates into the actual CAN messages.

With actual message logs, you/we can compare them to messages from a working car, and/or resources like opendbc to understand what the car is unhappy about.

[delgadb2]

The Gateway module is just that. its a gateway, to connect multiply CANs together and to act as a point of contact for the OBD/Diagnostic devices and it prevents physical connection to the actual CANbus in question. It will also handle parameter updates/programming of the modules down stream of it. If adding a120ohm term resistor at the gateway didnt decrease the resistance on the bus then you have a disconnect. either the CAN bus is not making it to the Gateway where you attached the resistor, or where you attached the resistor is on the other side of the gateway. You need to verify that there is a resistor at each end of the CANbus. The ignition module, Body control module and Dash are all part of PATS. There are probably others on a more modern vehicle so you would need to make sure those are all connected.

[Falcemach1]

I have checked and all the terminating resistors are in place .I suspect my having removed/deleted a number of modules has caused the BCM
to go into a programmed "safe" mode. What confuses me is that I cannot get any scan data and a scope connected to any of the CANBUS circuits
displays only about 1.7 volts on the plus side . No can low volage. Perhaps I need to approach the problem from a different angle.
When accessory mode is activated , the IPC displays a whole range of faults related to the modules removed . I think I should look at fitting units
to spoof the system? If the faults are corrected, maybe the BCM will let the car operate

[tom91]

You clearly want to keep going at this on your own. Just do what you are asking is a smart thing to do. Fix the issues you created for yourself.

We have suggested this multiple times. Stop repeating the questions.

[uhi22]

only about 1.7 volts on the plus side . No can low volage.

Are you saying, that you measure 1.7V between CANH and ground, and you measure 0V between CANL and ground? This would look like a shortcut between CANL and ground. The termination resistors normally pull the CANH and CANL voltages to the same level, something between 1 and 3 volts against ground. As soon as a node tries to transmit something, the CANH should go higher and the CANL should go lower.
Just a view stupid questions from my side, maybe they help to sort your thoughts
Do you have an overview picture which shows all the CAN busses? Which of them did you measure? Which of them show activity? Which of them show strange voltages? Which of them have which termination resistance? Did you already plan to order a CAN tooling?

[Falcemach1]

I have the factory wiring diagrams . There are 6 CANBUS circuits : HS1 CAN, HS2 CAN, HS3 CAN, HS4 CAN, HS CAN FD & MS CAN .All of the terminating resistors are in place All of the circuits display the same waveform . I don't know what you mean about ordering a CAN tooling.

[uhi22]

I cannot find your osci waveforms, would be interesting to see how they look like. Just CANH and CANL on two channels.

It is quite unlikely that all CANs contain the same messages, so I interpret your wording "same waveform" as "similar but not identical".
With CAN tooling I mean: To understand what is going on at the CAN busses, it will help a lot, to see which CAN messages are flying around. To see these messages, an oscilloscope is not very helpful. You need something that translates the CAN physical signals into messages. For instance SavvyCAN as a PC application, and a matching interface box which supports your type of CAN busses (regarding baud rate, CANFD support). With such an equipment it would be also possible to compare the content of the messages of your setup and an ok-car, to find the differences.

[tom91]

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/ ... st-1127581

this you?