Electric Falcon

[Falcemach1]

I have installed the entire drivetrain/system from a 2021 Mach-e into my 1965 Ford Falcon.I cannot attain anything other than accessory mode. There is no OBD data but, most of the lights, display panel and touch screen work. Any idea where to look?

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

One, super cool, I'd love to hear more about this build! Two, for this issue specifically, we're going to need more info on how the wiring harness was converted over, what parts have been used/not used, etc. Share! I want to see this!

(Also, Welcome!)

[Falcemach1]

I have used most of the components from the Mach-e including the touch screen , HVAC, charger, BCM , and the antilock brakes . I have deleted the supplemental restraint and the imaging module along with the power windows and seats

[Falcemach1]

Here’s a picture under the hood

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

Did you have to cut and/or lengthen any of the harnesses? Does reconnecting any of the removed components solve the issue?

I remember an article in Hot Rod about a Cadillac bult by one of the big name shops about 8-10 years ago, I think it was called Madame V, where they basically rebodied a lengthened ATS or CTS with a late 40's Caddy. The article mentioned that they had to eliminate some of the curtain airbags, and to make the car happy they had to figure out exactly what resistance those components had and add resistors in place of the airbags to get everything to run. I don't know enough about the Ford architecture and the Mach-E specifically to know what components they need to see to keep everything happy.

Do you have access to any of the wiring diagrams/schematics? Do you have any CAN logs from an unmodified car? Either/both may shed some light on the issue.

[Falcemach1]

I didn’t lengthen any of the harness but, I disconnected a number of unwanted modules that are connected to the gateway module, which manages seven(7) different CANBUS circuits . I suspect a terminating resistor is missing is missing which would cause communication issues. I don’t have information as to the location of the resisors even though I have a factory wiring book.I see there are some errors in the wiring diagrams . I believe I have an early production model

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

I disconnected a number of unwanted modules that are connected to the gateway module, which manages seven(7) different CANBUS circuits . I suspect a terminating resistor is missing is missing which would cause communication issues. I don’t have information as to the location of the resisors even though I have a factory wiring book.

If it is merely a termination resistor, then measure the resistance across each bus. It should measure 60 ohms. If there is a bus that doesn't, add a 120 ohm resistor across that bus.

However, my guess is that there are messages missing from one of those modules that one of the modules you kept wants to see as a safety. That's why I'd suggest adding them back one at a time to see if doing so fixes the issue.

If it does, you could then log that module's bus(ses) with and without the module, to find what messages it is sending, and then replicate them.

I have a factory wiring book.I see there are some errors in the wiring diagrams . I believe I have an early production model

If you could share any wiring diagrams, that would help.

I think what you've done is awesome. I would love to see and know more about the build. I also think that you likely know more about this platform than anyone outside of Ford. The Open Inverter community can and will help troubleshoot this, but you kind of need to share what you know or info you have so that we all can get up to speed and help solve the issue. We're kind of flying blind at this point - no one else has really messed with this drivetrain yet. (which makes your build all the more awesome)

[jrbe]

Welcome, very cool project!

Are you able to get into any of the diagnostics in the touchscreen?

I agree with P.S.Mangelsdorf, there are likely some missing can bus messages saying system is ok / system is safe that are preventing progress.

[Falcemach1]

I cannot get any diagnostics on the touch screen. This afternoon I did perform resistance tests on : HS1 CAN---60 OHMS
HS2 CAN----60 OHMS
HS3 CAN-----61 OHMS
HS4 CAN----62 OHMS
HS CAN FD----120 OHMS
My conclusion is that I am missing a terminating resistor. This an important CANBUS because it connected to the drive motor and inverter.
It also is connected to the PCM, AC , gear shift module and it was connected to the restraints control module and occupant classification
system module. I find that if I disconnect the power steering module, the resistance drops to nothing so , there is one resistor . I will test further and display my results. Thanks to all!

[jrbe]

The can fd should get a 60 ohm termination resistor added in.

Wiring diagrams don't usually show things like termination resistors but sometimes do.

This stage of progress can be tricky - being blind to what's going on. Do you have savvycan & can hardware to try to listen in?

[Falcemach1]

I am seriously confused . I have spent hours performing resistance and continuity tests on the HS CAN FD circuit and still cannot find why I the resistance on the bus does not drop to 60 ohms when I place a 120 ohm resistor accross the bus at the gateway end of the bus but, it does when I connect a resistor downstream. What am I missing?

[jrbe]

Is it possible it's communicating on the lines you're testing and throwing the reading off?

Might be worth not worrying about the termination resistance for now and move to sniffing the can lines. If you can't get a read you can try adding in the 120 ohms and try again.

I think you'll need to spoof a few different module ok signals / responses to get to a run mode.

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

why I the resistance on the bus does not drop to 60 ohms when I place a 120 ohm resistor accross the bus at the gateway end of the bus but, it does when I connect a resistor downstream. What am I missing?

That is odd, however - it is clear that one of the modules you removed has a termination resistor. One way you can know you're putting one where the car wants it would be to measure each of those modules, find the one with the termination, and put a resistor at the location that module would have been along the harness.

Might be worth not worrying about the termination resistance for now and move to sniffing the can lines. If you can't get a read you can try adding in the 120 ohms and try again.

I think you'll need to spoof a few different module ok signals / responses to get to a run mode.

I agree with jrbe that the termination is likely not the entire or even root cause of the issue. It is highly likely a message is missing, and by plugging modules back in you can probably find which one sends that message, and then log it to figure out what the message is.

[Falcemach1]

I am only testing the CANBUS when the auxiliary battery has been disconnected . As to “sniffing” the bus , I don’t know how to do that. I have used the ohmmeter on components I removed and found no terminating resistors . I will insert a resistor and retest .

[jrbe]

You're the first I'm aware of going this route with a Mach E. That means none of the hard work is documented yet for you to follow (here anyways..)

There are a few directions you can go. Based on your answer on sniffing (listening in on) the can bus, the easiest will likely be adding in the required & missing modules in the loop and doing what you can to trick each to think everything is fine so they can report that to other systems.

The other is a much bigger step learning. It will be analyzing can logs from a working Mach E and comparing the can bus conversation to what yours is communicating. Finding missing messages and responses, making sense of them enough to copy the required ones to a controller. This controller will then answer correctly over can for those missing but required modules so it can go into drive.
You can usually play a can log into a can bus and get it to do things it wasn't. This can be dangerous, confusing, and very helpful all at the same time.

It may help to add your location in your profile / let us know where you're located. You might luck out and have someone local working on a Mach E swap that's willing to help / trade your struggle areas for theirs.

[Falcemach1]

I live in Lindell Beach BC . Where the heck is that you ask? It is about 60 miles east of Vancouver south of Chilliwack. Sorry I did not do any electric diagnosis today. The weather was nice so, I did some painting on the car where I enlarged the wheel openings for the new rear tires.

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

As to “sniffing” the bus , I don’t know how to do that.

Basically, you need a tool that connects to the CAN Bus and logs all the messages being sent across it. I used one based on EVTV's CANDue for a while (before somehow damaging it) that works with a program called SAVVYCAN. There are other devices and programs to do the same thing. In my opinion, it is a VERY useful skill/tool to have for EV conversions, and one I'm glad I began learning.

I live in Lindell Beach BC . Where the heck is that you ask? It is about 60 miles east of Vancouver south of Chilliwack.

Bratitude /Brat Industries might be available/willing to help you do some CAN logging, he's in that area. But he's also pretty busy.

[Falcemach1]

Hello: I have wasted yet another day testing and got nowhere . A couple things of note : Perhaps I should pay attention to the dash panel display . It tells me there are a number of faults such as : service vehicle soon,stop safely now, blind spot system fault, cross traffic system fault , low battery fault(it is fully charged) and such . I believe these faults are likely preventing the system from starting. I also noticed something else .Each time I reconnect the auxiliary battery I hear a pump motor running in the rear drive motor . It runs non stop until I disconnect the battery . The more I look at the problems , the more it looks like a HVBJB failure . For the uninitiated , how best to approach the savvycan / diagnosis ? It is an overwhelming diagnostic situation.

[tom91]

It is an overwhelming diagnostic situation

You need dealer/workshop tools/software to find and clear the faults in the ecus. You should have logged the donor before taking anything apart.

This will be impossible without any in depth knowledge of the MachE software and diagnostics.

[jrbe]

Do you have high voltage gear/ high voltage understanding / training? Just want to make sure before digging in.

The stop safely now sounds like there is either a high voltage battery isolation fault and or no communication to the battery management system / isolation monitor.

And importantly, you did not connect the high voltage battery - to the chassis of the car, correct?

Do you have all of these modules, harnesses, and related components it's complaining about? Most should allow driving but some likely won't.

The low battery sound like they are not communicating with the battery management system (BMS.) is that plugged in / plugged into the right can bus line? The stop now very likely will and the low battery might prevent going past accessory mode.
Do you have the Mach E high voltage distribution box installed as it was? Anything missing / changed?

Some good scan tools would help as Tom mentions, do you have any?
I'm not sure how much the touchscreen diagnostics can do once that's working.

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

The stop safely now sounds like there is either a high voltage battery isolation fault and or no communication to the battery management system / isolation monitor.
The low battery sound like they are not communicating with the battery management system (BMS.) is that plugged in / plugged into the right can bus line? The stop now very likely will and the low battery might prevent going past accessory mode.

I agree those errors point to no BMS comms.

Do you have all of these modules, harnesses, and related components it's complaining about? Most should allow driving but some likely won't.

Do you have the Mach E high voltage distribution box installed as it was? Anything missing / changed?

This is a good point, also I presume these parts came from a wrecked car. Have you checked that all HV fuses are intact, and that any inertia sensors have been reset? It almost sounds like the HVJB issue might be a blown fuse or disconnect from the wreck.

[Falcemach1]

I purchased the complete salvage car from Copart in San Francisco .Although a write off, it was actually able to to be driven . I welded a broken tie rod and drove it into my shop for the conversion. I installed a section of the rear subframe into my Falcon and fastened the drive motor in place. I removed the floor from the Falcon and built a new perimeter frame and fitted t he entire battery pack which has the BECM and HVBJB
built into it .I fitted the Mach-e floor to my car and built a structure to support the charger, DC/DC , AC compressor and auxiliary battery. I fitted the HVAC unit to the car and installed the Mach-e touch screen ,dash panel and the gateway module, sync module , audio unit and telematics
module. As much as possible of the necessary components have been retained. I deleted the supplimental restraints system, power windows ,
power seats, pedestrian alert system, image processing module ,power mirrors , power liftgate , door latch control modules and impact severity sensors . I wish it would be possible to have a list of what faults are required to trigger the various warning indicators. I do not know how to reset any inertia sensors. I was surprised that the car I bought had no airbags deployed. I do doubt a blown fuse as the car was operational before I took it apart. I suppose my next step is to try the savvy can

[jrbe]

So you don't have any scanners like an Autel that can get deep into module communications?

There are some OBDII & cell phone code scanners that can get battery info and might be able to clear at least some of the faults. You might also find some high level faults that might illuminate what's wrong with things that should be communicating. Being able to see battery info on a scanner would be my first goal given your list of what's going on.

Does deleted systems mean cut and tossed or unplugged and you still have them? Keep them if you haven't tossed them yet. Even if they're plugged in on the floor it will be less of a communication mess to wade through.

A code scanner will be a simpler step than savvy can but I'm sure you will need to get into that eventually as well.

[tom91]

I deleted the supplimental restraints system, power windows ,
power seats, pedestrian alert system, image processing module ,power mirrors , power liftgate , door latch control modules and impact severity sensors .

"Extra modules" yea sure the restrains, image processing and impact severity sensors are not needed for the power train to function. These are all safety critical items.

You should have disconnected them one by one and checked the warnings and decided the next steps.

Guess you only choice is to reconnect everything in the hope faults clear. No idea if you Ford will allow anyone to work on a MachE thus the software even being available. Likely not due to HV safety concerns.

[Falcemach1]

The components I removed I saved in a big box. I could re-install them but, have altered the harness to account for their removal. I have a
Snap-On scanner and I purchased a Forscan OBD adapter and downloaded the program to my computer. The problem I found as soon as I turned
the system on remains as before. I cannot get any data as the OBD bus line is dead. How do I get the system to communicate? My understanding
of the system is that the start button blinking green indicates "accessory". I believe the BCM is programmed in the event of severe system faults to prevent start activation. Same problem: How to determine what is necessary to activate faults?