UK IVA Modifications

[4markowen]

and if that doesn't work then it's 'Lithium Powered Gear' and you've still got an LPG converted car

Sorry couldn't help but carry on with the ludicrous nature of the DVLA's stance

Shame politics is circling the drain at the moment, hopefully we'll land on a transport secretary that 'gets it'

[Scubascooby]

There a cottage industry in car conversion that could do quite well given the right conditions but it does look like the dvla is either trying to protect their jobs or a power grab to take total control of any car conversion work.

[Bigpie]

Shame politics is circling the drain at the moment, hopefully we'll land on a transport secretary that 'gets it'

With the churn rate at the minute it shouldn't be long until it's my turn to give it a go.

[SuperV8]

DVLA will only apply changes to v5 ... Well they used to (look at my old car gr03vnx) if the installer was registered with uklpga and you got a letter to send in with stamp on it. Yes they do cut holes!

At the moment DVLA are just being a pita ....best joke theory is someone's wife ran away with a guy with a Tesla that's why they hate EVs so much!

DVLA basically want to ban it on grounds of safety because they don't understand it, but don't have laws to do that so they are just awkward.... if they were proactive they would write a specification/publication setting out exactly what you can and cant do.

The short answer at the moment is
(1) buy pre 2001 car (X reg or older)
(2) don't even think of putting bolt or weld onto structure unless you are confident enough to blag it that it was there before from the factory
(3) if you buy a post 2001 car it's basically stuck with its original engine type...although in theory a post 2017 can be changed I suspect excuses with type approval will tie you in knots (my opinion at this stage as 2107 is too new at the moment)

The trouble is point 1 above directly contravenes rule 1 of EV club - don't buy a rust bucket

[SuperV8]

I informed the DVLA of my (2001) conversion 6 weeks ago. I finally got a response yesterday. It was essentially just asking for information I'd already provided. As expected, they are primarily just checking whether the chassis has been modified, and hence whether an IVA is required.

They've also asked for before and after photos of the vehicle, and confirmation of the chassis number. Nothing too onerous, but just another reminder to everyone: do not modify your chassis in any way!

I've send off the details they requested, so waiting again. I won't be expecting free tax, just making sure I do everything by the book.

From here:
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/exe ... e-approval

I was researching about 'if you modify the chassis you would need vehicle approval' can of worms - and noticed this list of vehicles EXEMPT from vehicle approval & it includes 10year + old cars!

[Peter]

Very interesting, wonder what they will say if you send a copy with your application ?

[crasbe]

Very interesting, wonder what they will say if you send a copy with your application ?

They'll change the page and say that never stood there
Here's the Web Archive link, so at least THAT won't happen: https://web.archive.org/web/20221024140 ... e-approval

[catphish]

From here:
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/exe ... e-approval

I was researching about 'if you modify the chassis you would need vehicle approval' can of worms - and noticed this list of vehicles EXEMPT from vehicle approval & it includes 10year + old cars!
image.png

I looked into that already because on the face of it this seems like it solves our problem entirely. Unfortunately, it's been confirmed that this rule will only be applied to imported cars unmodified from their original form.

[Scubascooby]

Unless the rule actually says that then it would be hard for them to enforce it.

[Peter]

I wonder if the DVLA read our forum ? Could be... thats why they have the answers before we ask !
Big brother is watching us.... wonder if he drives an EV ?

[catphish]

Unless the rule actually says that then it would be hard for them to enforce it.

Unfortunately these "rules" found on the gov.uk site are not legislation, they're just a simplified version of the current policies.

In their defense, I don't think it's reasonable to argue that one should be able to build a car, wait 10 years, then drive it on the road regardless of its construction.

It really is a shame that the regulations on modifications aren't more clearly defined in legislation.

[EV_Builder]

So you basically send them a link to the site and ask them on which legalization it's based? That ten years can only count for vehicles pre registered else there won't be an start date of the ten years...

[Bitsilly]

I have had my 1960 mini taken off the road due to holes drilled in the boot.
They could not fault the EV, just the holes.
All the ideas and plans discussed on this thread will be of no use if the DVLA just ignores them.
I have a parliamentary petition on the subject and my MP has written 3 letters.
My case has been written about in Kit Car magazine and will soon be on the Hagerty website.
Full details can be found on the mk1 mini site and piston heads.

One more point from somewhere in this thread, it is not up to the inspector of the car. My inspector loved the car but his recommendation for age related plate was overruled by a desk clerk.

My advice is to be very careful. If you have drilled holes even, weld them up, no changes are allowed. Once they know of any change they will refuse to allow any remedial work.

My experience is obviously only relevant to a classic mini, which could never pass an IVA. If your car has been designed to pass an IVA or SVA then you may be Ok but will still get a Q plate.

Happy to share my experience with any serious enquirer but have had enough of trolls and experts, bigots and idiots.

[steveknox]

I've read your thread on the mini forum. Sorry to hear about your situation. There's no chance my car will not need an IVA, as i've cut the boot floor and drilled multiple holes.

One thing which I'm curious about is why having a 'Q' plate is so bad? Are there significant tax / legal / insurance implications to having a Q plate?

[tom91]

The main question would be if the IVA inspection will be a basic one or a normal one.

You can can argue easily for the basic one, as its homebuilt or built from existing vehicles. so alot of the requirements become, inspector looks at the vehicle and goes oh you have not modified these aspects of the original car.

IVA Guide
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... -guide.pdf

Detailed IVA Manual for M1 (cars) catagory
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... hicles.pdf

[Bitsilly]

Re the Q plate, there is an old stigma attached as they mostly appeared on very DIY kit cars.
These days a Q plate car is generally worth a bit less than a normal plate, though how you compare is beyond me! I guess it is say a Cobra replica with or without.
The problem when the DVLA an old plate away is you lose tax and Mot exemption.

[steveknox]

Thanks for the explanation on the Q plate issue.

I'm relieved to hear that it's more of a historical / social issue rather than any sort of technical / legal reason for not wanting one, although I'm sure insurance would likely be less readily available and more expensive.

For me personally I don't ever intend on selling my car so its value is not relevant to me (plus it's an rx-8 so it was worthless to begin with). I don't care what the plate says and I'm willing to pay appropriate tax and have my car MOT'd.

[JamesA]

When assessing whether a newly converted vehicle needs an IVA or not, is the DVLA only strict on cutting/welding done specifically for the EV conversion, or do they then apply the same strictness to unrelated welding work on the body? What I mean is, if I carry out my conversion making use of existing mounting points and openings, carefully not cutting or welding the body, but the inspector can see an obvious patch on the sill from a previous rust repair, could they then pounce on that as a reason to reject the vehicle as 'modified'? Obviously the authorities don't take that approach to rust repairs on old cars generally, but they seem to be particularly looking for reasons to reject EV conversions at present.

[SuperV8]

I have had my 1960 mini taken off the road due to holes drilled in the boot.
They could not fault the EV, just the holes.
All the ideas and plans discussed on this thread will be of no use if the DVLA just ignores them.
I have a parliamentary petition on the subject and my MP has written 3 letters.
My case has been written about in Kit Car magazine and will soon be on the Hagerty website.
Full details can be found on the mk1 mini site and piston heads.

One more point from somewhere in this thread, it is not up to the inspector of the car. My inspector loved the car but his recommendation for age related plate was overruled by a desk clerk.

My advice is to be very careful. If you have drilled holes even, weld them up, no changes are allowed. Once they know of any change they will refuse to allow any remedial work.

My experience is obviously only relevant to a classic mini, which could never pass an IVA. If your car has been designed to pass an IVA or SVA then you may be Ok but will still get a Q plate.

Happy to share my experience with any serious enquirer but have had enough of trolls and experts, bigots and idiots.

Crikey, thanks for sharing your experience. When you say holes drilled - do you mean small holes; or bigger holes you can get your hand through?
Can you share a link to the mk1 mini or piston heads thread - have looked but can't find it.

[Ev8]

Could be an interesting case to make that the dvla will sva something like this with all its exposed gears and valve train and potentially leathal home made pressure vessel, it does seem to point out that differ standards are being applied….

[media] [/media]

[catphish]

After giving more thought to this, I wonder if we are fearing IVA tests unnecessarily. The only thing I'm a little unclear about is this - if you have an older car, does it need to be modernized to pass an IVA, or will original features be grandfathered in?

[Ev8]

I can’t imagine that land rover has had abs and airbags retro fitted, i take it there are no emisions standards for steam

[EV_Builder]

It's on a Q plate so it was made of parts from several vehicles.
I should also been qualified as Amateur Build if I recall correctly.

Normally cars which loose identity need all tests redone. Saying that an IVA isn't that an issue except maybe for ABS brakes and power steering. There is a manual who will tell you the exact rules.

[rstevens81]

It's on a Q plate so it was made of parts from several vehicles.
I should also been qualified as Amateur Build if I recall correctly.

Normally cars which loose identity need all tests redone. Saying that an IVA isn't that an issue except maybe for ABS brakes and power steering. There is a manual who will tell you the exact rules.

based on the detailed guide (as posted by tom): https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... hicles.pdf ...

There is no requirement for abs...

Service
1. The vehicle must be fitted with a service braking system that is
completely independent of the control of the parking brake,
capable of functioning on all wheels by a single means of
operation, which will gradually increase or reduce the braking
force through action of the control.
2. The ‘service’ braking system must be capable of being operated
from the driving seat, whilst keeping both hands on the steering
wheel. This does not apply to the controls for use by a disabled
driver, providing the adaptation allows him/her to control the
steering at all times while operating either braking system.
3. The ‘service’ braking system must be capable of being operated to
slow down the vehicle when it is moving in a forward or reverse
direction.
4. The vehicle must be fitted with a split (dual) circuit brake system
with each part of the system operating on at least two wheels (one
on each side), capable of operating in the event of a failure of the
service brake or its power assistance.

power steering looks very similar

This inspection is to ensure that any Manual or Power Assisted
steering system fitted to the vehicle will ensure easy and safe
handling of the vehicle up to the maximum design speed of the
vehicle.
In the case of unmodified Mass Produced vehicles the standards in
this section shall be considered to be met.
Where evidence suggests that the vehicle has been modified, the
examiner shall assess whether the modification would be likely to
materially affect the performance of the relevant component or
system, and if so, carry out assessment against the RS
With the vehicles steered wheels safely held on turning plates operate the
vehicles steering from lock to lock, with and without the power assistance
(if fitted). Assess the operation of the system.

I would not expect it to be that hard for Bitsilly to get an IVA for his mini particularly as the car was in production till 99 (im not suggesting he would pass first time), but there is nothing that would shout i'm more dangerous than a home built Haynes 7.

most stuff isn't needed for an IVA i.e airbags etc, you have to remember that all an IVA is a super MOT for kit cars, there are rules about external fittings like wing mirrors (basically so you cant clip someone and drag them along etc) so you might have to change them for the test but nothing that would stop an old car from being put back on the road, the duel circuit brake system might mean you need to re plumb your brakes with a valve that triggers when 1 one starts to leak, but all in all quite minor.

the hardest part is the HV battery although i believe janosch has done this a few times with his taxis (quoted below)

I don't know why people are talking about battery box certifications, we didn't have to do that:
The path for this that we found is:
MOT
write a report about electrical compliance (this is pages and pages of literature and boring writing)
get an appointment for an electrical safety inspection for ~£750 and get a certificate
submit all of this to get an IVA appointment ~£400
pass the IVA appointment

To re iterate what i have said previously
1. don't drill any holes if you can
2. if you cant its an IVA but that not the end of the world you'll probably be out of pocket by an extra £1500-£2500.

[Scubascooby]

I know that government petitions are generally pointless and few have ever been acted upon but it might be worth a shot.

Create one that asks for ev conversions to be treated the same as any other car conversion.