ID.3 and other MEB battery packs in conversions

[Carel Hassink]

Jochen what brand of MEB battery you have??
LG Chem, closed aluminum case,
or
CATL aluminum body black plastic sheet on top.

Carel

[Kutato72]

Fuses. 1206 size SMD fuses in the LG Chem version.

[DermitdemTiger]

I have closed modules from LG.

Kutato, great picture. This helps a lot!
I guess the grey flex cable is from an 8S module and the pink one from a 12S module? So there are 4, respectively 6 fuses somewhere else? Also good to see one of the NTCs. Is the other placed similar, just on top of the cells?

Best regards, Jochen

[Kutato72]

There are also fuses at the other end. He just couldn't fit a single photo.

[Clanarn]

Jochen, what a bummer, sad,
but think you blew the smd resistor in the line of the flex cable, leading to cell 12, disabling it effectively.
100mA is about max what it will take...

Lars, a partner has designed a cell-tab board using oem cell-tab cable, out goes MOLEX with pin-numbering sticker for easy connecting,
check evcreate.nl/shop/

Carel
Perhaps I can help out, quite a few battery modules at hand, or talk to Lars

IMG-20220311-WA0001.jpeg

"The Orion BMS balances at a maximum rate of about 200mA". So the MEB modules can't be used with Orion BMS?

[Carel Hassink]

I was very conservative in my thinking that 100mA would be prudent.

If 750mA (per Kutato72 ) : all Orion users become happy, as it seems,
but we have Lithium Balance/Emus etc, and other commercially available bms brands too

I'm happy to be wrong with my estimate of max mA =100, if that makes us all happy to use commercially available bms's
(way forward, we go test it)

best regards, Carel

[Riwi]

Hi!

I've used e-tron modules,3s4p 240ah, in a couple of builds and those use the same type on flex cable.
The flex cable has a high resistance compared to normal cables which can be a problem for the BMS because of faulty cell voltage readings. I’ve seen this on BMS based on the LTC68XX stack monitor. I ended up modifying all modules and replacing the flex cable with 22 awg cable.

Can Orion compensate for wire resistance?

BR

Rikard

[Ammar]

@Carel, I would like to know the weight of the 6.85kwh 234Ahr LGChem modules, please.

[Carel Hassink]

Ammar, here you go:
size: 59x22.5x11cm
weight: 29.85kg
best Carel

[Ammar]

Thank you, Carel, for the quick response and the detailed info. Much appreciated.

[CupraBorn]

Dear all,
I have registered myself to this forum because of this interesting thread. I'm thinking of building a second life ESS with the 12S VW MEB modules.

1) If it is possible I would like to use the VW original BMS (VW Slave Boards for 4 battery modules). I would like to buy them (evt. new from VW). Does anybody have a idea how they can be addressed and configured (can bus)?
If they are addressed and configured correctly, I have read that the SimpBMS would make an interface from an inverter to the BMS.
Alternatively, I would use any 3rd party BMS. Does anybody have a recommendation for a ESS?

BR,
CupraBorn

[boekel]

Hi CupraBorn,

SimpBMS works with them but not 100% yet, temperatures are not yet shown.

[Carel Hassink]

https://www.oemvwshop.com/0z1915140d-co ... -p2563687/

[tom91]

I would say that SimpBMS now fully supports the MEB batteries with the OEM CMCs.
https://github.com/Tom-evnut/VW-bms

Figured out the missing temperature feedback value on the canbus.

[Carel Hassink]

Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, let's get to it......

Carel

[EV_Builder]

Nice! Good job!

p.s. Made my device, together with a customer, compatible with SimpBMS too so TayCan is supported too

[Carel Hassink]

@EVbuilder:

any link where we can buy these Tycan TE connectors 1-1355397-3
all I find is months of delivery time
help is appreciated
Carel

[EV_Builder]

How many do you need? I don't stock those but can pull some strings.
Give me a call and we can discuss options.

[DermitdemTiger]

Summer is almost over and I came back to my conversion project.
Today I was playing around with an 8S module. I just used it as energy source. There is plenty in it, I thought.

But it seems at least this module is not much more than a brick. It discharged way too fast. When I looked at it after a view hours it was already down to less than 22V. The lowest cell voltage is at 2.5V. Most are at 2.7V. It seems the discharge was stopped by the module itself, not by the load. Now the module neither gives any power nor takes energy at the main terminals. (At the balancing connector all cells are accessible and can be charged very slowly.)

So my question is: Is there any protective circuit in these modules, which interrupts the main current path at critical low voltage? I didn't expected this.

Best regards, Jochen

[EV_Builder]

Normally the main terminals just keep feeding energy since they are connected directly to the cells. The cells are normally guarded by the BMS measuring what's going and disconnecting the load externally.

It does depend on the kind of module you have offcourse but normally this is the case.

Now with batteries like cordless drill etc. That's different in that thing is the BMS cutting the drill when needed.

[DermitdemTiger]

You are completely right. I found my mistake.
I put a 20A fuse in the line from the main terminals. I don't know why it was blown. May be, that time the load was faulty configured in the maximum allowed current as well.
So I charged that module to a healthy SoC. We will see, what we will do with it. For a car it is useless. I already found a tough DIY guy whi is willing to cut it open.
In the mean time I will check my other modules and sort them to 6kWh module and very expensive bricks.

Best regards,
Jochen

[Riwi]

Fuses. 1206 size SMD fuses in the LG Chem version.

Hi! Does the fuse have a resistance? Can you measure it?
Is the other batch of fuses placed behind the end-cover on the opposite side? Can you change or remove them by opening the end covers?

Br

Rikard

[Scutterbob]

Often like incandescent bulbs, slow blow fuses are temp and current dependent. They as "slow blow" don't respond to a minor spike. But I don't know if these "fuses" are fast or slow. I found this thread a few weeks ago, have the sealed box aluminum cased battery and while I can sense all cells, I can't get a conventional 8 cell test device to see any cells. I'm already expected I'll have to rig up a way to cut the lid which is not going to feel safe. I am guessing I'll rig up an angle grinder with cut-off wheel on my radial arm saw locked in linear and tilted 90 degrees, or something. I have both 8 and 12 cell batteries. I tried to make order of battery manager from Netherlands but paypal shut me down.. I mapped out both batteries to what others have posted and interfaces agree, I've ordered from VW parts sellers the connection light gage cables and attempted to make my own breakout boards.. and still failing ... I have mixed uses.. lawnmower and excessive PV absorber to power EV when available.

Any and all tips apprenticed

[Carel Hassink]

Hello Scutterbob,

check my partner Lars Rengersen from evcreate.nl
Lars designed some nice test tools for VAG MEB batteries.
interesting reading on the subject this blog:
https://www.evcreate.nl/using-volkswage ... y-modules/

best Carel Hassink, pro-LOX

[dadiowe]

Often like incandescent bulbs, slow blow fuses are temp and current dependent. They as "slow blow" don't respond to a minor spike. But I don't know if these "fuses" are fast or slow. I found this thread a few weeks ago, have the sealed box aluminum cased battery and while I can sense all cells, I can't get a conventional 8 cell test device to see any cells. I'm already expected I'll have to rig up a way to cut the lid which is not going to feel safe. I am guessing I'll rig up an angle grinder with cut-off wheel on my radial arm saw locked in linear and tilted 90 degrees, or something. I have both 8 and 12 cell batteries. I tried to make order of battery manager from Netherlands but paypal shut me down.. I mapped out both batteries to what others have posted and interfaces agree, I've ordered from VW parts sellers the connection light gage cables and attempted to make my own breakout boards.. and still failing ... I have mixed uses.. lawnmower and excessive PV absorber to power EV when available.

Any and all tips apprenticed

I have actually cut off the ends of these batteries using a 1mm thick disc cutter blade, there are fuses both ends from memory the 3.6v, 11.8 etc fuses are at the opposite end to the terminals. Just follow the weld and cut to about 2mm and you are ok. One of the wider sides of the battery has an area that is not welded this is the bit where the printed circuit runs so be careful in that area.
My reason for opening one was for one of the bms sensor wire fuses popping. I have found that if you have the sensor wires connected to a bms unit and the batteries that any slight short to earth when connecting the hv cables to the batteries will pop a fuse.

Hope that helps