ID.3 and other MEB battery packs in conversions

[raine]

Hi. Has anyone used ID.3 packs in conversions yet? I am considering pursuing this route. All pro's, Con's and tips are welcomed.

[EV_Builder]

Which BMS?
Did you open a brick to check the board inside?

[tom91]

BMS slaves are out side of the modules:

https://www.volkswagenag.com/presence/i ... attery.pdf

8 cells in series
https://evshop.fr/en/home/345-vw-id3-ba ... odule.html

Or 12 series exist
https://evshop.fr/en/home/339-vw-id3-ba ... odule.html

[Slevb]

We have purchased an id3 pack and will post video's and details about what we find.

[tmotion]

We have purchased an id3 pack and will post video's and details about what we find.

Interested in reading your findings. 8 48v modules will.make a nice and very compact HV battery. Combined with fast charging it will be great for a lot of conversions

[johu]

I met the eClassics team and they use all 8 modules in their T2 conversion without water cooling despite charging with 100kW.
The modules dissipate heat via the floor pan while driving. They get all the data from VW including the inverter protocol but are not allowed to share

[Domt177]

Found a guy on Facebook who is using 110kwh worth of VW MEB batteries in stationary storage, with SIMP BMS using the original VW Slave Boards

https://m.facebook.com/pg/Carel1956/posts/

[boekel]

Found a guy on Facebook who is using 110kwh worth of VW MEB batteries in stationary storage, with SIMP BMS using the original VW Slave Boards

https://m.facebook.com/pg/Carel1956/posts/

Carel Hassink, he sells all kinds of modules. he was actually using BMW CMU's there.

[Domt177]

Deleted

[tom91]

Correct they are "Dumb" modules, so have the external long black boxes in the packs that function as the slaves. There are different slave modules, with varying amounts of module connections.


Few limitations:
1. All cell tap connectors need to be connected on the slave for it to send plausible data
2. Limited to utilizing slaves with different IDs (so no mixing between packs)
3. No balancing as of yet I require a working internal battery can capture with balancing occurring.

Pinout for the slaves:

Slave Can Connector
Conn JST Wire side of connector view
Front of PCB connector view

[raine]

Correct they are "Dumb" modules, so have the external long black boxes in the packs that function as the slaves. There are different slave modules, with varying amounts of module connections.


Few limitations:
1. All cell tap connectors need to be connected on the slave for it to send plausible data
2. Limited to utilizing slaves with different IDs (so no mixing between packs)
3. No balancing as of yet I require a working internal battery can capture with balancing occurring.

Pinout for the slaves:

Slave Can Connector
Conn JST Wire side of connector view
Front of PCB connector view

ID3 connector.JPG

You mean these long black boxes? In my 9 module pack, there was this oneway and two 4-way boxes. These are slaves to connect to SimpBMS by replacing the black connector?

[tom91]

Yes I believe the black connector is the 12V and canbus

[raine]

Yes I believe the black connector is the 12V and canbus

Which version of the SimpBMS firmware should work with the ID.3 modules and the stock slave modules? Mine is version 210614. I see no canbus traffic to either oneway or 4-way slave module.

[tom91]

VW firmware, there will be canbus traffic if wired correctly.

[Carel Hassink]

Hello Raine,

VW ID3/4/Skoda Enyaq oem slave boards bms cable pin-out in MEB battery box
check photo
take off the tape from bms cable, locate green/white(12V pos) brown(gnd), orange/blue(Hi) + orange/brown(Lo)
there you go.
at least this is how I got can-data

best regards Carel

[raine]

Thanks Tom and Carel for your help. I got the canbus traffic going finally. There was a small discrepancy in the SImpBMS documentation between Can H and Can L in the user guide ver 0.27 at page 12 of the VW slave connector wiring:

The Can H should be pin 4 and Can L pin 9. This is correct in the page 11 where connector X5 is detailed, but this one at page 12 misslead me.

Thanks again for your help!

[raine]

Has anyone found the connectors for modules and slaves or are they VW proprietary?

Thanks!

[SuperV8]

There are part numbers for each small connecting cable within the whole HV battery, and prices so you should just be able to order some from any VAG parts department.

example:

0Z1971690S Connecting line; remark - 2,4,6,8
£7.87

0Z1971690T Connecting line; Remark - 1,3,5,7
£7.87

[DermitdemTiger]

Dear all,

I just registered to this forum because of this thread.

My conversion project is at the beginning and I will use these accu modules from VW's MEB. I got a bunch of them. Mixed 8S and 12S.
First I figured out the pin configuration of the 22 pin "BMS connector". I was also able to order the connection cable to that socket at a VW dealer.
But today I learned, that the plugs of the cables are keyed for 8S and 12S modules. In the socket there is "nose" which prevents plugging in the wrong cable. I do not know, whether there is more difference than this in the cable.

Below is a photo of the cable for 12S modules.

MEB internal cable accu module to BMS box

Actually I am looking for the part number of that cable for 8S modules. If someone can help... Thanks a lot!

Best regards, Jochen

[Carel Hassink]

deleted

[DermitdemTiger]

Thank you Carel for your offer. I gues I will use it, if I understand what happened today.

I am playing around with a 12S version of such an accu module. There is this 22 pin black connector. It contains the 12 voltages and 2 NTCs.

I expected 13 Pins for the 12 voltages. But the lower most voltage and the upper most voltage can be found twice at the connector. Does anybody has a clue for what reason this could be the case?
So I selected arbitrarily one of the possible two pins on each side of the row and connected a balancer.

Since all voltages were visible, I started balancing. But it worked for some seconds only. Then cell 12 was disconnected.

The used pin for plus pole of cell 12 is dead now. What could have happened here?

Should I just try the other pin, where plus of cell 12 is connected?
Is the balancing of the iCharger to strong? I have to admit, this was the very first time using this fancy device. (In the manual 2A maximum balancing current is given. I looked for that after the accident. )

Does anybody has a clue what happened and what should I do next?

Best regards, Jochen

[Kutato72]

They carry the end cells in duplicate because the BMS receives its supply voltage from one and measures the cell with the other. Thus, the jumps in the current consumption of the BMS do not interfere with the measurement. This solution is called the “Kelvin Connection”.

https://www.voltech.com/support/technic ... nnections/

The balancer wires are protected by a 750 mA internal fuse. If you tried to balance with more current than this, you have blown the internal fuses.

[Carel Hassink]

Jochen, what a bummer, sad,
but think you blew the smd resistor in the line of the flex cable, leading to cell 12, disabling it effectively.
100mA is about max what it will take...

Lars, a partner has designed a cell-tab board using oem cell-tab cable, out goes MOLEX with pin-numbering sticker for easy connecting,
check evcreate.nl/shop/

Carel
Perhaps I can help out, quite a few battery modules at hand, or talk to Lars

[Carel Hassink]

Jochen,
till date we have seen LC CHEM or CATL produced MEB battery modules,
LG CHEM, completely sealed brick,
the CATL MEB variety has a removable top, so one can access the cell-tabs, flex cable and front cell-tab connector
We've experienced the blowing smd fuses too, but managed to find a work around with the CATL brand produced bricks (kudo's Bernhard)

best Carel

[DermitdemTiger]

Thank you Carel and Kutato for your hints!

Carel, great to see such a module from the inside.
Do you have the possibility to cross check, what is between the cells and the pins of the connector? Fuses or resistors? The minus pole of cell 1 can be found on pin 7 and 9, the plus pole of cell 12 can be found on pin 21 and 22. I have used and destroyed pin 21.

In the mean time I will go back one step and will play with less intelligent devices. Like drawing a small current through the cell taps and observe the voltage.

Best regards, Jochen