Battery packs with 3p

[Tachopis]

Hello everyone, I wanted to bring up a topic for discussion. I'm analyzing which battery I will use in my conversion, and since it's with a GS45h, I'll be looking for one with a 3p configuration to allow for high performance. I was considering MEB batteries, but I realize that other models, such as the Hyundai KONA, also have 3p versions. What's very difficult is knowing the serial number of each version. Perhaps it would be a good idea to start listing batteries by serial numbers and create a wiki for it. There's not much information on KONA batteries, for example, but they seem very adaptable and interesting to use, plus some models have a 96S3P configuration.

Kona part numbers:
37510-G2000
37501-G5000
37501-G5100
37501-DD150
37501-CM020
37501-K4050
37501-CM020

(but no info which one has 3P )

[tom91]

Why 3p, you are quite lost. How many cells are in parallel has nothing to do with its performance.

You need to find the continuous and peak rating of the packs. The cells used and in which configuration has no direct link to this.

[Tachopis]

Hi Tom, surely you know a lot in detail, and it's not my intention to stir up controversy here. Just to clarify, generally speaking, having three cells in parallel, with the discharge rates being typically 1C, impacts the total capacity of the battery, its discharge current, and, ultimately, the performance of the vehicle.

[tom91]

discharge rates being typically 1C, Bigger total capacity of the battery, bigger discharge current, bigger performance of the battery.

[Tachopis]

Well, again, my intention with this post is to compile the battery packs with 3P configuration and its part numbers. Of course there are more aspect as weight and size in terms of performance but, if you need high current fast, better go for 3P. Remember the discharge depends on the parallel cells.

Increased storage capacity: Connecting cells in parallel increases the total battery capacity (measured in ampere-hours, Ah) because the capacity of each cell adds up. Therefore, a 3P configuration will have a 50% greater capacity than a 2P configuration, assuming the cells have the same capacity.
Higher discharge current: Connecting cells in parallel also increases the total battery's ability to deliver current. This is important for applications requiring high power peaks, such as acceleration in electric vehicles. A 3P configuration can support a higher current demand without overloading individual cells.

In summary, a 3P configuration might be "better" than a 2P in terms of energy capacity and discharge current, which is advantageous for the vehicle's performance, especially in terms of range and acceleration capability.

[tom91]

BMW Ix3

https://www.batterydesign.net/bmw-ix3/

Total Energy = 80.3 kWh
Usable Energy = 74 kWh
SoC Window = 92.2%
Nominal Voltage = 345 V
Voltage Range = 394.8 V to 235 V
Configuration = 94s2p
Cell count = 188
Nominal Capacity = 232 Ah
Peak 10s Power = 233 kW

Kona 64 kWh
https://www.batterydesign.net/hyundai-kona/

Usable energy = 64 kWh (total = 67.5 kWh)
SoC Window = 94.8%
Nominal Voltage = 356 V [4]
Configuration = 98s 3p
Nominal Capacity = 189.6 Ah
Power = 170 kW10s [4]

Why is the peak power of the 2P pack higher? Because the BMW Ix3 pack peak output is rated at 2.9C where as the Kona is rated at 2.5C.

[tom91]

The Lexu RX300e is 3P like you want.

https://www.batterydesign.net/lexus-ux-300e/

Usable energy = 45 kWh
Total energy = 54.35 kWh
SoC Window = 82.8%
Nominal Voltage = 355.2 V
Nominal Capacity = 153 Ah
Configuration = 96s 3p
288 cells in total
Power = 167 kW10s

Oh look at that this one is rated for 3.07C

[royhen99]

Therefore, a 3P configuration will have a 50% greater capacity than a 2P configuration

the part you have missed is it also comes with a 50% increase in size and weight. Tom's data above shows it's possible to get the same or better performance with 2P configuration.

[Tachopis]

Alright, depending on the cell's discharge and its chemistry, we might achieve the same or better performance with a 2P configuration. Okay. Anyway, as I was saying, it's not about having a debate or escalating to harsh tones when speaking. I would have preferred if we had approached the topic differently from the start. For example, the page you mentioned, https://www.batterydesign.net/, I wasn't aware of it, and I find it very interesting for learning about the types of batteries in the market and their performance. I believe we're all here to learn and it's not about ridiculing anyone. Anyway, I hope in the future we can have a different way of communicating.

Thanks royhen99 for your comment.

[rstevens81]

the 2p/3P is irrelevant..... its dependant on the rating form the manufacturer or how far your willing to push them (tesla push the original 1860's way beyond Panasonic spec)... I would worry on more practical things like what will fit.. will i be overweight... where can i fit my motor?

[Zieg]

I mean the Pacifica battery, according to EVWest can do like 800 amps burst from 1p. Can't one big cell do the same thing as 3 cells each 1/3 the size? Or 10 cells 1/10 the size?

[Jacobsmess]

Here's the spec on the cells used in the older Lexus UX300E pack... The newer pack (2023 onwards I think) is a bigger capacity and different cells are used.

[Tachopis]

Good morning everyone, I would like to continue with this topic. Certainly, the performance is not as directly related to the parallel cells as I initially thought. But the origin of this post was to list the possible batteries for the Lexus GS450h and their serial numbers. Parameters to consider... Performance, price, possibility of hacking for the BMS, etc...

[Tachopis]

Adding more details. The cells in the Kona battery pack are LG E63B, Chemistry = NMC622 Model. As per specifications, it has 3C max discharge. As it's is 65Ah. Then this package is 3p configuration so 567Ah max discharge. That means 226kw max peak power.
I wanted to bring this up to understand how we are calculating if any battery pack will fit our conversions. The batterydesign web (https://www.batterydesign.net/hyundai-kona/) says this battery is 170kw peak 10 seconds. Do I miss something here?

[tom91]

Do I miss something here?

Cells to module to pack.

Everything is based on heat rejection and cycle life.

Things like cooling, busbars, fuses, connectors and contactors will for sure impact ratings.

[boekel]

The maximum current is of course dependent on how thick busbars are, what the cells can handle, but nowadays it's mostly about cooling, as most cells are capable of high currents (nowadays the race for the fastest charging vehicles)

The highest power production pack I've seen personally: PHEV pack from landrover:

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