Subaru e-mpreza (Impreza) 96 - AWD with 2 Outlander rear motors

[Zapatero]

Hi fellow enthusiasts,

i'm restoring a 1996 Impreza Turbo 4WD at the moment and from the first moment i had the thought to build it electric. Now due to the rising costs of Gas the thought came to my mind again and i would need some advice. As the car is totally torn apart all options are open at the moment.

I was thinking:

Kona 64 KwH Battery
Front 80Kw Outlander Differential with Motor and Prius Inverter
Rear 80Kw Outlander Differential with Motor and Prius Inverter
I3 LIM for CCS capability
Custom VCU with help of Johannes.

Will 2 Motors at 80kw add up to exaktly 160Kw of power or is that not the case?
The car should have a at least its original Power wich was 155 Kw.

I repaired the body entirely and removed all rust, welded new panels in

That's what it looks like now. Unfortunately one part is not fitting correctly so i have to paint it again anyways. That means i can still do intense modification to the body, if necessary, such as make room for the battery or the rear motor.

[johu]

Yes gas prices are now over 2€ here (per liter, not gallon!), I just go past and put on evil grin

In that case 2x80 would make 160 kW. Only issue I see here in Germany that it is a non-matching motor/inverter pair and that might/will cause headaches at TÜV. Or is it only for track use?

[m.art.y]

What about 160 kw Leaf stack? Is that possible or maybe simpler?

[Zapatero]

.....Only issue I see here in Germany that it is a non-matching motor/inverter pair and that might/will cause headaches at TÜV. Or is it only for track use?

That's not an issue for my TÜV, i'm sure. As both components are out of an OEM Vehicle, there shouldn't be a problem at all.
What's the Kw-max for the prius inverter?
Is that correct that i wouldn't need a Charger as the Prius Inverter is able to do that, too? Will it work with J1772?

What about 160 kw Leaf stack? Is that possible or maybe simpler?

I definately don't want to go that route anymore, as most of the mechanical sounds i have are related to the prop shaft and gears. I would really like to get rid of all unnecessary parts and have a motor attached to the drive shafts just via a differential.
Also if i get rid of the prop shaft i will have plenty of room for the batteries.

[Bratitude]

I know they can be hard to come by as they are still new vehicles, but why not a 2019+ crosstrek hybrid transmission?
They are essentially a gs450h transmission but with the Subaru awd. Would leave engine bay empty!

[Zapatero]

I know they can be hard to come by as they are still new vehicles, but why not a 2019+ crosstrek hybrid transmission?
They are essentially a gs450h transmission but with the Subaru awd. Would leave engine bay empty!

As far as i know we don't have them in Europe

What do you guys think? Will the Outlander Motor be able to push more than 80 Kw?
What is the max Kw of the Prius Inverter?

2 Outlander Motors are actually pretty cheap, around 500€ for both. Also the Prius Inverters would be cheap.

[bexander]

Why not do two Leaf motors, one front and one rear. Can be controlled via CAN directly, no extra mods required. Can then later be upgraded to 110 or 160kW inverters...

[m.art.y]

I was going to suggest 2 Leaf motors too but if there is not enough room at the back why not use Leaf motor and gearbox at the front and Outlander at the back? Then you would surely have enough power.

[johu]

I guess you'd be using 2 Prius inverters? With the power stages paralleled they can deliver about 500A. Power then depends on battery voltage. I guess Kona battery is nominal 360V? Then you'd be looking at 1.22*360*500 = 220 kW each - can it be true?! Anyway, 80 kW seems easily doable

[arber333]

Well why then dont you use Outlander motors with Outlander inverters. All of them work via CAN. And there would be no problem with TUV.

You could use one rear motor with inverter for FWD and one identical motor for RWD.

Also you could drive both sets with single CAN msg for true 50:50 torque distribution.

I think 70kW is rating because of battery constraint. If you used stronger battery i think you could produce way more power. Rear Inverter has 600A IGBT.

[projectgus]

I think 70kW is rating because of battery constraint. If you used stronger battery i think you could produce way more power. Rear Inverter has 600A IGBT.

I think is true as well, as the peak power went from 60kW (12kWh pack) to 70kW (13.8kWh pack) which is 5C in both cases. However, I don't think anyone has confirmed what the Outlander inverter's OEM firmware power limit is (hard limit or effective limit from the way it's tuned).

[Zapatero]

Now i'm bidding on a 64Kwh Kona Pack and also 2 Outlander Motors with Differential. That means i only have to sort out wich Inverters i'm going to use. The Prius-Inverter would actually be more expensive as i have to buy the inverter and the drop in board. So i think i'll try the Outlander inverters. From which model year on would they have 80Kw for sure? 2015?

Thanks, Philip

[Zapatero]

Would that one be the correct inverter?

https://www.ebay.de/itm/402810486684

[Bratitude]

I think your idea with 2 outlander rear diff motor units is good. The leaf motor and gearbox are huge in comparison.

I don’t see an issue with hitting 100kw on each outlander motor.
there should be enough room to mount one in the rear cradle.

I’ve thought about using the same setup on my brat..

[arber333]

Would that one be the correct inverter?

https://www.ebay.de/itm/402810486684

Just about any rear inverter. It gets its command from vcu which is the master. If you make your own master then you set the limits.

[Zapatero]

So the part list tends to look like this:
- Tesla Model 3 PCB with evbmw board as 10kw charger and DC converter
- 2 outlander motors with inverters
- evbmw Zombieverter vcu
- I3 LIM for CCS
-Kona 64kwh battery
-prius power steering
-Prius or GT86 pedals for analog brake and accelerator

The result should be a 250km range and fun to drive vehicle that charges rather quick and everywhere.

Does anyone has further suggestions?

[arber333]

So the part list tends to look like this:
- Tesla Model 3 PCB with evbmw board as 10kw charger and DC converter
- 2 outlander motors with inverters
- evbmw Zombieverter vcu
- I3 LIM for CCS
-Kona 64kwh battery
-prius power steering
-Prius or GT86 pedals for analog brake and accelerator

The result should be a 250km range and fun to drive vehicle that charges rather quick and everywhere.

Does anyone has further suggestions?

You could make it selectable RWD/FWD/4x4 by pulling to GND RSDN line on each of the inverters by selection disabling inverter in turn...

[projectgus]

Just about any rear inverter. It gets its command from vcu which is the master. If you make your own master then you set the limits.

Has someone successfully driven the OEM Outlander inverter+motor past the 60 or 70kW vehicle limit? Isn't it possible the OEM inverter firmware has either a hard limit or an effective limit due to its tuning?

(I'd be happy to be wrong about this, as this is the motor+inverter combo that I plan to use.)

[Zapatero]

Yes, cool idea to make it possible to choose whether or should be fwd or rwd! And also I'll find out if there is a hardware limit but o think arber333s knows what he's talking about

I've bought a lot of stuff already:

Also the web shop order for the evbmw parts will be ordered today! Then I need just another rear inverter and the battery. Also Prius power steering and pedals.

[johu]

Great that you're pushing ahead with all that bleeding edge stuff!

It is easy to program front/rear balance into the ZombieVerter, down to disabling torque of one.

[Zapatero]

Next order placed:

Thanks Johannes, with all the knowledge from my first build and your help i think this car will beat blast to drive.

[Zapatero]

I can't find the link for the housing of the Zombieverter VCU. Probably I'm just too blind. Can someone help me out?

Also I'm confused. Could the Zombieverter control the Tesla PCS too and my order of the control board for the PCS was unnecessary?

Thanks

[Bratitude]

I always wanted to have a “gear selector” that just changes the torque balance between front and rear. Manuel torque vectoring. As you enter a corner, start pulling the lever back to make it more rwd, and as you exit push it forward to make it more fwd.

[Zapatero]

I'm using this selector of a 2010 Impreza STI.

The parts for the project are mostly aquired:

2 outlander motors with gearbox
2 outlander inverters with all HV cables
1 BMW CCS charging cable complete with everything
1 BMW CCS LIM
1 Prius Power steering with ECU
1 Prius gas pedal and for the brake the just the sensor, with plugs and cables
1 Tesla charger and DC DC
1 Isabellenhütte shunt 1000A not terminated
1 Zombieverter VCU with housing and cables
1 Impreza selector switch
And a few other parts like molex connectors, cables etc.

Got my hands on the Kona battery pack, but prices seem to rise rapidly at the moment.

[Scrappyjoe]

Just want to add a special thank you for keeping a rolling parts list. Please keep this up as you progress! Some of us might clone your setup…