[WIP] Mercedes 310E (310D campervan) - GS450H/GS300H

[Woodfie]

Yes,
But, appart from the weight, when installed in Bedford Chassis as combo EV (MG1 + MG2 )
Or Hybrid with existing ICE, and series ish 10kw charging for range extension,
and when the available chargers are full of recent subsidy encouraged Teslas etc.

the Bulk of the tailend of the L110 looked like a physical fit challenge in smaller tunnel of an intended Soarer Cv430s , and hence the path of L210 became attractive.
With lack of information on usage, it seemed it either hadn't been done, or not reported, which started the path of the Bmwagon as a test vehicle, to gain some knowledge.

[Woodfie]

Thought had lost this post when editing,
But somehow it popped up again after I reconstructed it.
As was some added stuff that I didn't rewrite am posting it before it gets lost again... Sorry if some bits are repeated... am learning how to work thus stuff.

So the lost to the Aether and returned post.


Think maybe 30kg ish lighter
Have last year installed a GS450H set up in a CF2 Bedford Chassis, retaining the original ICE, using MG1 and MG2 with input shaft to be locked by Sprague clutch as Toyota does in ZVW35 Phev or a disc brake on front if the Ice,
To enable EV operation, (MG1 plus MG2)
And Hybrid operation of ICE and MG1 as generator, at this stage operating at 10 Kw , potentially off a renewable source of Wood , (at present using convenience LPG)

In the Bedford Chassis, the bulkiness of the GS450H made the iron ICE look diminutive, and the added oil pump/controller complexity , made the GS300H look attractive, on an other Van, or a Toyota Soarer where the tunnel size looks a challenge.
Thus prompted the quest to find out how usable the L210 GS300H is likely to be in a test case, which is the Bmwagon .

[Jacobsmess]

Thanks Woodfie, I look forward to seeing some details on the campervan install.

I'm going to run some max rpm tests to hopefully get an idea of what max rpm will be at battery voltage (crude rpm/V at bench setup voltage extrapolated up). I'm sure it's not accurate but would be good to at least provide information.

I'm also looking at setting up a 3rd motor on the input shaft to be used alongside NG1 for greater output speeds.

I'm hoping to pick up a cheap eScooter motor next week and run it from my Ebike controller setup on the input shaft.

So for the above I need to make sure I'm getting ATF to the right places.... The oil pump is running and I've bought some Toyota WS ATF fluid but I'm uncertain of the best way to add the fluid to the transmission. The oil pump has a hose (output?) And there is a port on top of the bell housing (input?)

Is there a full port somewhere also? Can I just join the two existing hoses and funnel the fluid in via a filler somewhere?

Thanks

[Woodfie]

For the GS450H There is a hex fluid fill at the back behind the mechanicsl shift park lever.. with trans level, as in the car, the drain plug has a pipe that when open with an Allen key, overflows through the pipe to indicate correct level.

The top hose looks like it is a breather

On no load run tests of Mg2 on the 300h trans, albeit with prius inverter, on road load, can get max of around 6000rpm Mg2, at 63kph ,
When run with wheels off the ground, can spin up to 14000rpm Mg2 , Figuring the FWeakening allows the unloaded speed, but at much reduced power.

Have only recently seen the project pages, and could put the Bedford build info there.

[Jacobsmess]

For the GS450H There is a hex fluid fill at the back behind the mechanicsl shift park lever.. with trans level, as in the car, the drain plug has a pipe that when open with an Allen key, overflows through the pipe to indicate correct level.

The top hose looks like it is a breather

On no load run tests of Mg2 on the 300h trans, albeit with prius inverter, on road load, can get max of around 6000rpm Mg2, at 63kph ,
When run with wheels off the ground, can spin up to 14000rpm Mg2 , Figuring the FWeakening allows the unloaded speed, but at much reduced power.

Have only recently seen the project pages, and could put the Bedford build info there.

Thanks, definitely do put info on the project pages, and lots of pictures!

I'll take a look at the oil connection, so where does the oil pump hose connect to? I think you may be correct about the top hose being a breather.

[Woodfie]

there is an internal water to ws fluid heat exchanger)

There are hose connectors like for heater , these are water, on the GS450H I have the inverter first, then the trans, then radiator/ header tank.

[Woodfie]

Looking at your oil pump picture, the black hose from the pump, is not on the pump I have, as I recall, when installed last year... perhaps an oil cooler was not used on the original car system that I have used.. I'll check it out.

[Bigpie]

has the filling process

[Jacobsmess]

Soooo.... I popped the oil pan off to clean it out before filling it with ATF and unfortunately the pan popped off quite fast. Upon cleaning up the mess I found this part on the floor.. no idea where it's come from, if it's for the transmission or not at all tbh. Any ideas?

It kind of fits around the overfill tube on the pan but only loosely so I'm not sure that's right. It also has a sharp edge suggesting it might have broken off something but I can't find anything so far.

[Woodfie]

Last few days, contemplating options on the L210 trans, wondering if locking the 3.3 in some way is practical, as one application for it was a final drive of 4.5:1, and 15"wheels . In a prius gen1 nhw10, the Mg2 to final drive is 4:1,
Another option which could try first on the bmw test wagon, is a 1:2 step up, as a hanger bearing replacement.
Not a nice fix, but would approach the gear ratio of the GS450H L110 in high gear.

[Jacobsmess]

Interesting but I guess in those applications you also have boosted voltage to 650v which means in OEM application it can teach the 16000 rpm. No one knows max rpm at 400v in the vehicle as far as I know so far...

[Woodfie]

Re use of L210

Unboosted use of the inverter intended, around 270v nominal
Figure the taller drive ratio, will mean lower Mg2 speed in a range well before FWeakening.
Mg2_speed would be 4500rpm at 100kph, if the 3.3 gearbox final welded ir locked to 1 :1
Mg1 would be at its max speed rating, which would also need addressing.
However the torque at wheels will be hugely reduced, at motor current, so would only suit a lightweight vehicle, not a large van that i was considered..which is a bother..

Just thoughts to explore how to make the best use of the L210.

[Jacobsmess]

Re use of L210

Unboosted use of the inverter intended, around 270v nominal
Figure the taller drive ratio, will mean lower Mg2 speed in a range well before FWeakening.
Mg2_speed would be 4500rpm at 100kph, if the 3.3 gearbox final welded ir locked to 1 :1
Mg1 would be at its max speed rating, which would also need addressing.
However the torque at wheels will be hugely reduced, at motor current, so would only suit a lightweight vehicle, not a large van that i was considered..which is a bother..

Just thoughts to explore how to make the best use of the L210.

Yeah by welding or fixing the 3.33 ratio of the l210 you loose all the torque.... I picked up 8 escooter motors (because they were £20) to experiment with this evening. I'm going to couple one to the input shaft of the GS450H and see if I can use it to modulate output shaft speed between the mg1 and the escooter motor. Obviously this only works unloaded and a bigger motor would be needed in reality but I think these should work for experiments....

[Woodfie]

Pre the locating of an I3 REX , which is to be picked up tomorrow, a Honda 5Kw generator is working okay driving 15A into an Evse charging lead..
This allows charging through the charge port, and suitable when not moving.
Previously on another Hv vehicle, had rectified the 240v, and added a number of 24v meanwell supplies on top, and was charging direct to the battery, at around 10A, which could be run whilst on the run.
Am hoping the I3 REX is capable of more, once method to control it is established. If it is resolver indexed, will use a prius gen3 inverter for starting, and request neg torque to enable charging...

[Woodfie]

Hi , am still finding my way around the open inverter.

Apology for posting here previously

Will continue the range extender project on the site with Rex Hacking ,
an intended use is in an EV80 LDV van, which has limited range, and LFP that exhibits rapid range gom loss once Soc is below 60%. of the predicted kms

[Jacobsmess]

So I've been a bit quiet on progress as tbh, there hasn't been much as I've been focussing in getting other stuff done.

As an update, I orchestrated a group buy of ISA Shifts from the US which have now arrived. I'm waiting on pigtails to arrive before hooking it up.

As if yesterday I bought a battery back (Thanks again for the heads up Bigpie!) For a very reasonable sum. It's from a lexus UX300E and although it's only 45kwh usable which won't give me anywhere near enough range, it's a good start and a workable size. And as said the price was sillu cheap.

Otherwise, I've just been doing some rust repairs and rewiring door lock actuators that weren't original.

[Jacobsmess]

Oh,I also rigged up a small 112V lead acid bank to see what max rpm I could get out of the transmission. It worked out roughly 20Revolutions/V of mg2.

I'm also planing on getting a gauge setup on the bench so I can get a Speedo signal from the transmission as well as other information. For this I'm planning on using Jamie's STM32 can gauge thing.

[Jacobsmess]

And a little pic of a repaired door almost fully painted...

[Woodfie]

Interesting but I guess in those applications you also have boosted voltage to 650v which means in OEM application it can teach the 16000 rpm. No one knows max rpm at 400v in the vehicle as far as I know so far...

Have been re visiting the locking of the 3.3 ratio reduction on the L210 GS300H transmission..
Although in the OEM systen can boost to 650v, MY intention was to be nominal 300v to 360v, as more ancillary equipment DC DC converters, and chargers, bms s etc are compatible at this stage.

[Jacobsmess]

Have been re visiting the locking of the 3.3 ratio reduction on the L210 GS300H transmission..
Although in the OEM systen can boost to 650v, MY intention was to be nominal 300v to 360v, as more ancillary equipment DC DC converters, and chargers, bms s etc are compatible at this stage.

Likewise although I'm also considering running a 650V pack and then using the Buck converter to bring the voltage down to match other hardware. The issue with this is I have just bought a 350V 54kwh pack so would need to find a matching battery pack or something to get to the higher voltage.

[Jacobsmess]

So yesterday I picked up a 54kwh pack from a Lexus UX300E for £900! (thanks BigPie for the heads up!)

It's much mess capacity then I was hoping for but it's a start and I'll add either a similar pack in parallel OR a pack with the same cells in series in the future.

The top was fibreglass and given I can't lift 500kg myself, I had to dismantle it from within my campervan. Once all the bolts around the edge were removed I used and angle grinder to take the top case off as I couldn't manoeuvre the pack to get the lid off in one piece myself.

Here are some pics....

[Jacobsmess]

It's got 8 modules of 27 cells (9s3p) and 3 modules of 24 (8s3p)
Its air cooled and has all the cooling infrastructure inside it.
It also has 8 contactors inside, I've not worked out what they all do yet. It's a centralised BMS.

[Jacobsmess]

More pics

[marcexec]

Awesome price! Air cooling makes it interesting for DIY. Can you please measure and weigh the individual modules? I'm happy to help you edit the Wiki - just PM.

[Jacobsmess]

Awesome price! Air cooling makes it interesting for DIY. Can you please measure and weigh the individual modules? I'm happy to help you edit the Wiki - just PM.

Yes I will get dimensions shortly, I've only managed to free one small 24 cell one so far as it was late last night. I'm going to get more out today, unless the existing form is maintained I doubt the air cooling could be maintained. It has a liquid to air heat exchanger inside, the pack is sealed and air circulated over AC cooled water I believe and the ducts are formed to match the existing pack shape. Although I may consider it. In this form Toyota guaranteed the pack for 100k miles or 10 years I believe.