Heavy torque cut in low gear GS450h & Zombieverter

[dadiowe]

Deep joy, forgot to isolate the 12v battery 3.6v left, slow charging with little hope of recovering the battery. Happy days!!!!!

[dadiowe]

Tested this afternoon,

The first 3 captures are at moderate throttle at throtmax 50% with idc 500, 600 and 700 and it is nearly impossible to pull away.

Last capture is at about 40% throttle position with the throtmax at 30% idc 700 about 20MPH.

Side note: the T-can seemed to keep connection a lot better.

[tom91]

On which side is UDC. There is a major problem here.

Please provide all the information on you wiring and connections. There is something very dangerous going on here to cause such a heavy sag.

Pictures of the setup are really required.

[tom91]

I very strongly urge you NOT TO TURN ON THE CAR and specially drive it in this condition.

Taking images from the previous page this creates a very disturbing picture.

[dadiowe]

One thing to note is when I parked up i noticed the battery voltage was down to 260 which might explain some of the results i.e. sag.

When the car is set at 80% throtmax and just using high gear the car is quite drivable and I have probably driven 200 to 300 miles with no issues.

1st photo shows the connections to the inverter the 2 curved grey cables are 6 core screened to MG1 & MG2. the temp sensor wires from mg1 and 2 are external to the screened grey cables. not taped up yet for obvious reasons.
There is an earth from the gearbox to the body.

The centre picture shows 4 seperate 2 core and screen from the inverter to the VCU.

Chademo is in the process of being installed. But the issue was present before that was partially installed.

One thing to note is when you have auto or reverse set in the parameters after about 30 seconds there is a buzz coming from the transmission. Disconnecting the output from the VCU to the g/box "trans SP" does not stop the noise

[tom91]

How is the HV connected to the inverter?

Why is there an Sbox and then two external contactors?

[dadiowe]

contactors are for the chademo!

[tom91]

One thing to note is when I parked up i noticed the battery voltage was down to 260 which might explain some of the results i.e. sag.

No the sag is down to nearly 0V/100V from readings of around 300V. This would mean there is a high resistance some where on the HV circuit.

My current hunch would be the Sbox contactors are nowhere near rated to what you are asking of them with a GS450h

[tom91]

How does you DCDC converter get HV?

How does the DCDC get enabled?

[Bigpie]

You got an ISA shunt and some better contactors?

Has the SBox ever been made to open contactors under load or no precharge?

[dadiowe]

DC converter goes from the outlander dc terminals to the negative terminal of the disconnect unit and through a fuse to the isolated side of the positive sbox contactor.
DC charging is controlled by the zombie vcu and outlander canbus

[tom91]

DC charging is controlled by the zombie vcu and outlander canbus

There is an enable line for the DCDC how is this given 12V?

https://openinverter.org/wiki/Mitsubish ... r_DCDC_OBC Signal "Enable DC/DC Converter"

[dadiowe]

You got an ISA shunt and some better contactors?

Has the SBox ever been made to open contactors under load or no precharge?

The sbox is a relatively new addition. Which I think means you don't need contactors or shunt, the ones shown are for my chademo charge system (as yet incomplete).

Please note I had this problem prior to sbox and chademo install.

[tom91]

Please note I had this problem prior to sbox and chademo install.

Please do not think and jump to conclusions here. The fact it has gotten alot worse while literally nothing in theory that you told us that you cahnged could have done that.

current graphs say you have a high resistance so the Sbox is suspect as it measures the reported UDC.

[dadiowe]

There is an enable line for the DCDC how is this given 12V?

https://openinverter.org/wiki/Mitsubish ... r_DCDC_OBC Signal "Enable DC/DC Converter"

I have an igniton input to a relay for running. I will have to look in the morning for the charge input!!!!

[tom91]

So you possibly got the DCDC trying to draw power through the contactors during precharge. this would cause issues and leads to damage.

[dadiowe]

I have 4 batteries in the front and 3 in the rear should that matter?
I could disconnect the charger

[tom91]

I have 4 batteries in the front and 3 in the rear should that matter?
I could disconnect the charger

No, No point

You have an high resistance issue on the HV bus that causes the voltage sag under low load. So this needs finding first.

[dadiowe]

Sorry I have described my hv connections from the charger.
The dc to dc comes out of the dc post of the charger and connects on to the back of the BMW fuse box

[tom91]

Sorry I have described my hv connections from the charger.
The dc to dc comes out of the dc post of the charger and connects on to the back of the BMW fuse box

Charger and DCDC share the HV connector...

[Bigpie]

Please describe and/or photos of your series links between the battery modules too.

[dadiowe]

Ok I will do that in the morning.
Thanks for your help

[dadiowe]

Just reading through the questions to make sure I have answered them all so far.

"How is the HV connected to the inverter"

Middle picture, +ve comes from the +ve of battery 7 in the rear and in via the isolation connector on the left then to the +ve of the sbox through the fuse throu8gh the cantactor and out of sbox +ve to the inverter.
-ve comes from battery 1 to the input of the -ve sbox through the contactor and out to the inverter.
Connection from the rear batteries is Battery 5 to battery 4.
HV connections for the charger are on the -ve output terminal of the Sbox via the isolated side of the chademo contactor. The positive is connected to the isolation unit on the isolated side. I suppose this should really be on the isolated side of the sbox +ve.
(apologies this is not how I fully described it yesterday.)

"Please describe and/or photos of your series links between the battery modules too.

All cables are 50 square mm with crimped connections as needed.
Batteries 1&2 and 3&4 are joined by the busbars that were in the ID3 battery box.
Batteries 5,6 and 7 are interconnected with 50 square mm cable and crimps
The 2 visible contactors are from the ID3 battery box so they should be suitable as charging contactors.
Battery box shows some of the cables.

"There is an enable line for the DCDC how is this given 12V?"

I use the coolant pump output connected to a control relay. This relay energises a dc/dc relay, a coolant pump relay and a control relay for the electric brake booster.

General points
The original posted photos of the plots show completely different types of traces to the last screen shots, they all show IDC and UDC. Why are they dramatically different?
The car performs ok in High gear (at 80% throtmax). However, I have never had the feeling that I am getting maximum perfomance.
I have read posts about fantastic permance but I do not seem to have that.
I have felt the HV cables after a run, they do not seem too hot!

I hope that helps

[tom91]

Please get us a plot of UDC and UDC2 both on the same side. Just draw a little power, DO NOT GO FOR A DIVE.

Just move the car in and out of the garage.

[tom91]

The car performs ok in High gear (at 80% throtmax). However, I have never had the feeling that I am getting maximum perfomance.

Currently this is unbelievable giving the graphs provided yesterday.