openinverter forum

Here is a pic of the battery pack opened. I'll be posting a video about it sometime but wanted to ask you guys if there is anything you want me to do before I dismantle it.
I'm in the process of following the pixie path through the pack and marking each module and connector so once out of the box I should be able to reconnect everything as is but with better access.

Allright, here we go. I will flood your PM with questions and pictures when I get to my parts and notes in the evening..

Lets start with finding out if you have the same wiring harness part numbers that I have? And I will find my drawings where I have traced the wiring. If you could add the HV side module arrangement then we are good to go if we sometime want to utilise original contactor and BMS box.

Modules look the same as mine, you can separate large module types from the sticker location on top and the other type has connectors in bots sides of module.

I must add that I allready cut my BMS orange harness in half because there was a point where only 1 wire goes on and I will have 2 packs.

JaniK wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:42 am Allright, here we go. I will flood your PM with questions and pictures when I get to my parts and notes in the evening..

Lets start with finding out if you have the same wiring harness part numbers that I have? And I will find my drawings where I have traced the wiring. If you could add the HV side module arrangement then we are good to go if we sometime want to utilise original contactor and BMS box.

Modules look the same as mine, you can separate large module types from the sticker location on top and the other type has connectors in bots sides of module.

I must add that I allready cut my BMS orange harness in half because there was a point where only 1 wire goes on and I will have 2 packs.

Great, Hopefully we can get some useful info but please treat me as a numpty who knows nothing and you'll not be too far wrong.
I've got this far by plagiarism and bloody mindedness rather than fully understanding what's going on.

**********SAFETY WARNING**********

Sorry guys I should have posted this earlier. I'll copy it into my first post.

I don't know if all eCar packs are the same but this pack has no physical safety disconnect to cut the pack in half, it will be at full voltage until you break it down.
It also means it is at full voltage while you are cutting the top off which is not easy and if you do it wrong you WILL cut into the battery modules!! I was lucky as before I figured out the best method I slightly cut into a module with my chisel but caused no harm.

The top of the pack is some kind of fibre glass covered in metal foil. It is so well glued down you will not be able to prize it off so will have to cut the top off.
To do this you MUST cut straight down at the corner of the bottom flange. Cutting flat in towards the pack will probably result in damage and possible fire as unlike Leaf packs the modules have no protection.
I used a 1" wood chisel to cut the top off but I think one of those vibrating multitools would do it much cleaner and easier.
DO NOT use a dremel or grinder to cut the top off as in a couple of places there are BMS wires you will cut into. In my case the Chisel didn't harm them but a cutting disk would have I've never used a vibrating multitool but I'm assuming it wouldn't cut the wires either.
I'll take some photos later and add them to this post.

Alibro wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:27 am Great, Hopefully we can get some useful info but please treat me as a numpty who knows nothing and you'll not be too far wrong.
I've got this far by plagiarism and bloody mindedness rather than fully understanding what's going on.

Allright, so we are basicly at the same expertism level here.

If I would have a full pack, I would discharge one cell a little with a light buld etc. And then try to find a way to start the VW BMS to be able to sniff if it wants to balance it and how. But mine is in parts and I don't know how to "start" the pack.

Please look at this before you continue taking it apart, there is capacitor in there to discharge.

Thanks for that.
I took out a couple of links yesterday to make it a bit safer and the cap is still at 290V.
Before I strip everything I'll stick a resistor across it.
Also I'll use a precharge resistor before reconnecting.

Good to know tip went to use.

I tried to flood your pm with notes, or crowsfeet on paper.

I think such a mess is not ready for posting on the public internet for any moron to find, but I looked your videos and you seem to have your own brain, so I sent you the handwritten notes in Finnish too.

Hopefully you can atleast get a good laugh.

Brilliant thanks. I'll take a look at them later.
Right now I'm still tracing the current path and marking the modules. After that I need to label every bms and CAN connection so I'll be at it for a while.

I also sent you my notes for those orange BMS and black CAN wiring between packs.. but they are made for my labeling of harness without pack, so might mess with your labeling of modules in the pack. But anyways, have fun.

Thanks
I'll try and produce a spreadsheet with all the connections but it may take a few days so please be patient.

I've traced the pixie path and drawn a diagram to show the battery modules from number 1 (Most Positive) to number 28 (most negative) I still need to dismantle the pack and label the BMS and CAN cables so wish me luck on that.
Hopefully this will be useful to someone. Excuse the terrible drawing but an artist I ain't.

BTW This is edited with corrected battery module layout so forgive the tipex glare.

Does the wakeup command from the VW GTE packs not work? Sending ID 0x0BA was enough to wake up the contactor controller and slave modules. I've stupidly thrown the BMS master.

I've got some GTE slave board on the way from someone on Endless Sphere that I'm going to have a play with, trying to hook up to some 18650s so I don't risk the ones on my modules.

Bigpie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:10 pm Does the wakeup command from the VW GTE packs not work? Sending ID 0x0BA was enough to wake up the contactor controller and slave modules. I've stupidly thrown the BMS master.

I've got some GTE slave board on the way from someone on Endless Sphere that I'm going to have a play with, trying to hook up to some 18650s so I don't risk the ones on my modules.

Hopefully someone else can answer this, I've only opened the pack and traced the high voltage. Many of the connections are hidden so I won't be able to do much meaningful work until I get the modules on the bench.

Great job Alibro! Many Thanks!

Now I can see how it has been originally.

Bigpie, should the master/contactor controller wake up also if there is no modules? -Have to buy a CAN board first though.

My contactor board started spewing out CAN messages when sending anything with ID 0x0BA with no modules or BMS master.

I didn't test the BMS master before throwing it, but I think that's what sends the wakeup command.

I'm getting sent a BMS master now too, so will have a play with that when it arrives.

I've created a SavvyCan script https://github.com/jamiejones85/DBC-fil ... Modules.js to mimic a GTE modules voltage messages. I doubt it's going to be as simple as faking some out of balance voltages and seeing it the master sends some command out, but we'll see.

Nice, I just realised you are charging the vw modules with outlander charger. Many thanks for pioneering, I plan to do that too. I have SimpBMS also here.

Alibro, please check you module 6 and 7, for I think it is only one big 4S module.

I will look at your module arrangement and compare it to my wiring measurements I sent you, if get a moment I will share it here.

JaniK wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:01 pm Nice, I just realised you are charging the vw modules with outlander charger. Many thanks for pioneering, I plan to do that too. I have SimpBMS also here.

Alibro, please check you module 6 and 7, for I think it is only one big 4S module.

I will look at your module arrangement and compare it to my wiring measurements I sent you, if get a moment I will share it here.

Oh bo() #*s!
Your right janik, when I first opened the pack I thought there were two small modules and never double checked but it's only one. I'll fix the drawing and repost later.
Meantime I'm relabelling the pack.

New photo's copied into the post above with (hopefully) the correct battery module layout.

Comparing my multimeter mayhem and your HV order.

My :
From BMS Master,
black cable to module # and orange interconnect.
27, orange interconnect to 26-23
22, orange interconnect to 21-19
18, orange interconnect to 17-16
15, orange interconnect to 14-13
12, orange interconnect to 11-10
9, orange interconnect to 8-7
6, orange interconnect to 5-4
3, orange interconnect to 2-1

Alibro?

E: no one even commented the horrible copy paste error, but alibro quoted it.

JaniK wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:58 pm Comparing my multimeter mayhem and your HV order.

My :
From BMS Master,
black cable to module # and orange interconnect.
27, orange interconnect to 26-23
22, orange interconnect to 26-23
18, orange interconnect to 26-23
15, orange interconnect to 26-23
12, orange interconnect to 11-10
9, orange interconnect to 8-7
6, orange interconnect to 5-4
3, orange interconnect to 2-1

Alibro?

It will be a day or two before I can confirm this Janik. Life gets in the way and it will take many hours to label and dismantle the pack but when I can I'll get back.

No worries. Take your time.

Allright.
I have now traced and figured out the black BMS wiring according to Alibro's picture of opened pack and my separate wiring on the floor.

I allready got SimpBMS wired up 7 months ago to it. But then I tested only 1 module group for verify that SimpBMS works with the Samsung modules. And didn't know the og HV wiring.. There will be more...

The orange one is easy because it actually consist of smaller harnesses that are used to connect the BMS slave modules to the next modules with the dummy BMS PCB. The orange wiring just makes the Cells in the modules connected together act as a group with the one that has the black BMS harness. (Didn't now that until I had measured all of the wiring with multimeter)

There are 5 different types of module groups in pack.
Total of 8 groups.

The flow of the CAN wiring trail in black harness is not the same as flow of HV current.
Flow of the input enable signal is, and it is a loop.
Maybe that will have something to do with balancing?

Ok next, draw a readable schematic?

Or maybe I send my notes to Alibro and after he double checks them later with the full pack we will share the info.

In the middle..

Hi all, I'm a bit late to the party... but I've taken apart quite some of the gen1 and gen2 e-golf batteries..

there is no need to cut the pack open! I only cut the tabs where bolts are, to get access to the glue.
with a 'long box cutter' style knife you can cut the glue and then pry the cover open a bit (some wooden blocks to keep tension on the glue) and cut the rest of the glue. 30-45 minutes maximum.

when removing gen2 cover I do cut a little bit of the front so the charge connector comes free easily.

wiring: just unwrap all orange wiring, they are 90% the same pinout but different length.

most 'master' modules (module with CMU) connect to 8s of other modules, some connect to less and have some special wiring to keep CMU working.

comms wiring is 'daisy chain style' but not really daisy chained (only the enable signal I believe)

contactor assembly I don't know much about, I just take them apart... they differ between the years btw.

boekel wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:32 pm Hi all, I'm a bit late to the party... but I've taken apart quite some of the gen1 and gen2 e-golf batteries..

there is no need to cut the pack open! I only cut the tabs where bolts are, to get access to the glue.
with a 'long box cutter' style knife you can cut the glue and then pry the cover open a bit (some wooden blocks to keep tension on the glue) and cut the rest of the glue. 30-45 minutes maximum.

when removing gen2 cover I do cut a little bit of the front so the charge connector comes free easily.

wiring: just unwrap all orange wiring, they are 90% the same pinout but different length.

most 'master' modules (module with CMU) connect to 8s of other modules, some connect to less and have some special wiring to keep CMU working.

comms wiring is 'daisy chain style' but not really daisy chained (only the enable signal I believe)

contactor assembly I don't know much about, I just take them apart... they differ between the years btw.

Thanks for this,
Now I have the lid off and have tidied up a bit I realise you are right about using a sharp (short blade) knife to cut the pack open.

I have all the modules removed now so my next move is to reconnect it all on the bench.