openinverter forum

Sure !

Amazing! Thank you. Will measure up when the rain stops.

**edit**

Won't fit under the bonnet

bobby_come_lately wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:11 pm Thank you.

Would anyone be able to stick a tape measure on it? I have a space under my bonnet where it may fit bit it's going to be tight height-wise.

Measurement for the older unit with the connectors and coolant stumps sticking out.

Length 370mm
Width 270mm
Height 150mm

arber333 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:10 pm

bobby_come_lately wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 2:11 pm Thank you.

Would anyone be able to stick a tape measure on it? I have a space under my bonnet where it may fit bit it's going to be tight height-wise.

Measurement for the older unit with the connectors and coolant stumps sticking out.

Length 370mm
Width 270mm
Height 150mm

Thank you.

I've gone for one despite it not fitting. Some fettling required probably to shrink my battery box a little bit, or do a cut-out of the lid. But got one for a very good price so made sense.

Thanks for everyone's work on the analysis too - much appreciated.

Daft question time: does this charger need a pre-charge setup or is that all integrated and it can be connected direct to battery pack (via a fuse)?

bobby_come_lately wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:05 pm Daft question time: does this charger need a pre-charge setup or is that all integrated and it can be connected direct to battery pack (via a fuse)?

Probably internal precharge when you apply 12V.
I have connected it directly for testing with Anderson connector, but I recommend you still use 20A HV fuse.

Fab - thank you.

Has anyone looked at getting this charger to work with SimpBMS?

Tom hinted months ago that there is a code ready but not tested. I have not had time to build my pack yet. But should be supported by SimpBMS from what understand. Tom will correct me perhaps. If you guys have SimpBMS and Outlander charger and a battery pack. Ask tom91 if you can help test the code.

I will pick up the fruits of your work later then

bobby_come_lately wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:14 pm Fab - thank you.

Has anyone looked at getting this charger to work with SimpBMS?

I dont think it is a problem to use SimpBMS with the charger. It works in quite a similar way as Volt charger. I made that one work with SimpBMS but i am now using different battery in my Pug. Volt battery still has SimpBMS but is on standby... Hm... could get it to work though... just to prove a point.
I am now using my DUE board to run this since it is easier to experiment for me. https://leafdriveblog.wordpress.com/202 ... ger-tests/

You do have to fulfill some conditions to turn charger on.
1. You need to sense cable being connected eg by PP pin which is connected to some SimpBMS pin and pulls it to GND.
2. CP pin of EVSE is connected directly to Outlander charger LV connector pin 9
3. SimpBMS sends telegram id 285 at rate of 100ms. This pulls a relay inside charger and shows EVSE resistance of 840R on CP pin. EVSE goes to charge mode.
4. SimpBMS sends telegram 286 at rate of 800ms with actual voltage and current request. Current is maintained as long as CP shows correct PWM.

JaniK wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:55 pm Tom hinted months ago that there is a code ready but not tested. I have not had time to build my pack yet. But should be supported by SimpBMS from what understand. Tom will correct me perhaps. If you guys have SimpBMS and Outlander charger and a battery pack. Ask tom91 if you can help test the code.

I will pick up the fruits of your work later then

Just to complicate things I am using a BMW battery pack. Have the Simp code running on a Teensy in there and chatting happily to the BMS units on the five modules. I'll tap Tom up and see if the code will work in that scenario. Thanks.

And thanks for the info arber333. Shows me what I need to tap on the charge port/cable I've picked up (also Outlander) and feed to the Teensy.

bobby_come_lately wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:36 am Just to complicate things I am using a BMW battery pack. Have the Simp code running on a Teensy in there and chatting happily to the BMS units on the five modules. I'll tap Tom up and see if the code will work in that scenario. Thanks.
.....

I have Outlander charger, E-golf 35,8kWh pack and SimpBMS combo. But I am super slow to get anything done past testing comms with SimpBMS and modules.

Once I get some more structurally intact steel in my car to attach a pack, I make the pack and then test charging.

But my progress consists mostly welding of the car for now..

I've collected everything I can from this thread and put it onto the Wiki (in part to aid my own understanding). Hope you don't mind that I've grabbed your knowledge and pictures.

If you get a second, would you mind casting an eye over this and checking I've got it right?

https://openinverter.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Outlander_PHEV

(and if anyone knows how to change the title to add 'Charger' that would also be welcome!)

bobbycomelately wrote: ↑Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:12 am If you get a second, would you mind casting an eye over this and checking I've got it right?

For DCDC to work you need first to apply 12V to pin 7 and GND to pin 10. You also need to have its casing connected to common GND.
Then you apply 12V ENABLE signal to pin 4 and you see 14.5Vdc on the power line.

Great to have all info in one page, thanks.

arber333 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:13 am

bobbycomelately wrote: ↑Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:12 am If you get a second, would you mind casting an eye over this and checking I've got it right?

For DCDC to work you need first to apply 12V to pin 7 and GND to pin 10. You also need to have its casing connected to common GND.
Then you apply 12V ENABLE signal to pin 4 and you see 14.5Vdc on the power line.

Great to have all info in one page, thanks.

Great - updating now

Hi bobby_come_lately and all, thanks so much for all the hard work here on the charger & DC-DC, and the WiKi page is great.

I also have a BMW PHEV, 5 module pack, using the S-Box, SimpBMS and Outlander charger. I'm also using Outlander front transaxle, inverter and A/C pump. I didn't realise SimpBMS code had (or may have soon) the CAN messages to control the charger also - that is great to know. I will watch that with interest. BTW what motor are you using?

I've a big pile of bits and a donor car (Panda Mk2) with a few areas of progress, so reading everyone's efforts is very motivational. Thanks.

Currently have just one of the Outlander front motors mated to the manual gearbox from my Z3. Fiesta clutch centre turns out to be a good fit (think I've documented that on the wiki).

Do you have CAN code to drive the inverter ready? Have seen some bits over on the other thread. I was originally using the Prius Gen 3 inverter but my EVBMW board got fried so while I'm waiting on the new one picked up a very cheap Outlander rear inverter. Not sure if the pole counts match but hoping to have a play with that this weekend.

Ah yes, I saw some of your posts on that. Sorry no, not yet. Hoping there is enough out there already shared to make this not too hard. Do you have the front motor, not the generator? All three are different, but hopefully the front motor is similar enough to the rear motor so it will work with the rear inverter. I'm a long way from getting mine turning... I've spend months figuring out how to build a mini inverter to just drive the switched reluctance park lock motor and mechanism on the front transaxle. That, at least is just about finished... A challenge I was not expecting but needed for the MOT.

In my current configuration I have the inverter (Prius Gen 3) controlling my contactors and pre-charge relay. How are other people with this sort of configuration controlling the contactors when they want to initiate charging?

What's sending the CAN messages to your charger? What is reading the proximity resistor from the handle?

You are going to need a CAN node to control the charger, I've posted arduino due code to run the charger. This node could also power up the Prius inverter.

I believe theres an inhibit signal to the open inverter board or you could use some relays to break the direction button inputs so the vehicle can't be driven.

It is probably best to have one ecu control the HV contactors.

Dilbert wrote: ↑Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:34 pm What's sending the CAN messages to your charger? What is reading the proximity resistor from the handle?

You are going to need a CAN node to control the charger, I've posted arduino due code to run the charger. This node could also power up the Prius inverter.

I believe theres an inhibit signal to the open inverter board or you could use some relays to break the direction button inputs so the vehicle can't be driven.

It is probably best to have one ecu control the HV contactors.

I use one Arduino DUE that gives tempo to charger and when it senses EVSE PP line it breaks the relay that feeds 12V to inverter emergency switch. I use this in Mazda and in Pug also. If i start the car everything goes online and i can run webasto, listen to music etc... but the car wont run.
At first i was a little awed by whatif something goes wrong when charging and contactor and DCDC is on etc...
Well the first reall winter settled this for me when i had to wait 20minutes in the cold for my car to charge enough to drive home.

Thanks Arber & Dilbert.

My current thought is to modify the SimpBMS code to take an input when the charging cable is plugged in by tapping PP. This will then send the REV and FWD lines high on the inverter (Simp already sends one output high when charge mode begins), and then power the inverter on, putting it into charge mode. This will prevent the inverter from going into drive mode as long as both these lines are high. And it should see the inverter start the pre-charge cycle and close the contactors.

After a delay I can then have Simp send the CAN commands to the charger to begin charging.

Only questions are:

- Whether the inverter being in boost charge mode will cause any issues, given there won't be any input voltage to it (I don't think so)
- Whether it would cause an issue if charging tried to start when the DC contactors haven't closed for any reason (again, I don't think so)

I can answer the second question, if the HV contactors aren't closed the charger just drops out. I wants to see >205v on the HV side or it won't start the charge cycle. I had to trickle charger a Prius batter to get it above that voltage to allow charging start.

Dilbert wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:01 pm I can answer the second question, if the HV contactors aren't closed the charger just drops out. I wants to see >205v on the HV side or it won't start the charge cycle. I had to trickle charger a Prius batter to get it above that voltage to allow charging start.

Fab - so it's just the question of whether having the inverter connected at the same time would be an issue. Guess I'll just have to give it a try...

bobby_come_lately wrote: ↑Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:58 pm

Dilbert wrote: ↑Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:01 pm I can answer the second question, if the HV contactors aren't closed the charger just drops out. I wants to see >205v on the HV side or it won't start the charge cycle. I had to trickle charger a Prius batter to get it above that voltage to allow charging start.

Fab - so it's just the question of whether having the inverter connected at the same time would be an issue. Guess I'll just have to give it a try...

It shouldn't cause an issue, the HV caps will be sitting @ 300v+ DC, but that is about it. That is why it is probably best to power up the board controlling the inverter, but use a digitial input to disable the running of the motor. There is a digital input in the generic firmware called din_bms which can be used to limit the throttle when active, so you could limit the throttle to zero using this pin.

Dilbert wrote: ↑Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:38 pm It shouldn't cause an issue, the HV caps will be sitting @ 300v+ DC, but that is about it. That is why it is probably best to power up the board controlling the inverter, but use a digitial input to disable the running of the motor. There is a digital input in the generic firmware called din_bms which can be used to limit the throttle when active, so you could limit the throttle to zero using this pin.

My idea is to have a three position switch for this.
1. Provide 12V power to absolute minimum items like radio internal lighting because this can drain battery. This position will bring power to controler.
2. Provide Enable signal and CAN telegram to DCDC and other peripheral systems like pumps and fans.
3. Start position. With this position a latching 12V relay is used to privide power to inverter and DC switch. Now car should be able to run. In case of charger connected i would disable car by removing GND connection from that latching relay by means of another relay which is triggered by PP signal. That way if you have DPDT relay you can use it to supply 12V to coolant pump via other set of contacts. Charger needs cooling!