Prius Gen 2 / Gen 3 Max Power?

[mdrobnak]

I saw on the wiki that 300kW might be possible out of the Gen 2 inverters, and someone copied similar wording to the Gen 3 page it seems. Has anyone verified what the actual max power is out of these things?

I may be modifying my idea of using a Leaf setup to instead use a Siemens 1pv5135-4ws14 with _something_ EVTV has the DMOC 645 aircooled at $645 if you buy them together, but these Prius inverters seem even cheaper than that. Are the boost converters being bypassed on these? Is there a power limit on them (like the GS450's ~30kW?)?

Thanks.

-Matt

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

I think that was me.

My power numbers came from 2 places:

Voltage - From what people say the max voltage that these units can handle.

Amps - From Damien's very crude 10' steel resistor tests before shutdown.

They're combined M1 and M2 I believe.

I'm not sure I interpreted them correctly, so someone may want to verify.

[Kevin Sharpe]

I may be modifying my idea of using a Leaf setup to instead use a Siemens 1pv5135-4ws14 with _something_ EVTV has the DMOC 645 aircooled at $645 if you buy them together, but these Prius inverters seem even cheaper than that.

Damien is fitting a Siemens and Toyota inverter in the LandYacht (here) and no way i'd consider using a closed source DMOC today

[Kevin Sharpe]

I saw on the wiki that 300kW might be possible out of the Gen 2 inverters, and someone copied similar wording to the Gen 3 page it seems. Has anyone verified what the actual max power is out of these things?

The BEXUS motorway drive peaked at ~121KW (260V x 466A) but we ran out of road not inverter performance. Note also the motor temperatures peaked at 21 deg C after 15 minutes driving (ambient ~10 deg C). We'll have a much stiffer battery in a few weeks time and can then put the car on a dyno for some definitive figures

See accelerating onto motorway at 5:33 in this video;

[Kevin Sharpe]

Prius Gen 2 Inverter Current Testing - "somewhere over 350 Amps to shutdown MG2, and somewhere over 250 Amps to shutdown MG1 inverter stages in a Gen 2 Prius inverter"

From this you can speculate that the peak is 360kW / 490hp (350A + 250A x 600V)

[mdrobnak]

Thanks for the link to the video!

The GS450h gearbox is definitely awesome, and plan to use it in a modified hybrid situation at full power (bypassing the boost converter). But in the other vehicle the gearbox is half of the uniqueness of the vehicle, so I want to keep that. And seems like I may get into trouble with the leaf motor and using a clutch, so Siemens + something seems more usable.

As far as the Prius, 350 -370 Amps out of MG2 is pretty good for what these inverters can be had for. Now given I'm only looking to drive one motor, not two, 600 V * 350 A = 210 kW battery power. However, unless we can step up to 600 V, that's not likely to be used by many. 360 V * 350 A = 126 kW battery power, which is definitely respectable. The DMOC 645 apparently peaked around 414 A. So, at ~$650 when bundled with a motor, that's not bad. Do keep in mind I'm discounting the control cost for these solutions as I'll be using one of my Motec ECUs. Comparing DMOC + GEVCU vs Prius + controller, the Prius definitely wins. Also that you can do charging via MG1 on the gen 3 is pretty sweet. So definitely looks interesting, and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with the E39.

-Matt

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

Prius Gen 2 Inverter Current Testing - "somewhere over 350 Amps to shutdown MG2, and somewhere over 250 Amps to shutdown MG1 inverter stages in a Gen 2 Prius inverter"

I knew I'd found it somewhere but hadn't dug up the source when I wrote that.

I've edited Gen2 and Gen3 pages to include numbers in both places and links to the video so no one will ever have to ask someone to look it up again.

[Kevin Sharpe]

Now given I'm only looking to drive one motor, not two, 600 V * 350 A = 210 kW battery power. However, unless we can step up to 600 V, that's not likely to be used by many. 360 V * 350 A = 126 kW battery power, which is definitely respectable.

AFAIK Damien will use both the MG1 and MG2 inverter power stages in parallel with the Siemens motor, so it's 360V * 600A (350A + 250A) = 216kW

The DMOC 645 apparently peaked around 414 A. So, at ~$650 when bundled with a motor, that's not bad.

It's a good price but having used a lot of DMOC/GEVCU in commercial applications I wouldn't recommend it

[mdrobnak]

Now given I'm only looking to drive one motor, not two, 600 V * 350 A = 210 kW battery power. However, unless we can step up to 600 V, that's not likely to be used by many. 360 V * 350 A = 126 kW battery power, which is definitely respectable.

AFAIK Damien will use both the MG1 and MG2 inverter power stages in parallel with the Siemens motor, so it's 360V * 600A (350A + 250A) = 216kW

Oooh! That's nice. And that definitely makes it the right way to go.

The DMOC 645 apparently peaked around 414 A. So, at ~$650 when bundled with a motor, that's not bad.

It's a good price but having used a lot of DMOC/GEVCU in commercial applications I wouldn't recommend it

That's a pity. But plan Bs are always good to have. Plan C (aka if I was rich or it dropped in my lap) is Rinehart / Cascadia Motion (which is somewhat local to me as it turns out)....

-Matt

[Kevin Sharpe]

I've edited Gen2 and Gen3 pages to include numbers in both places and links to the video so no one will ever have to ask someone to look it up again.

That's great... many thanks

[Isaac96]

You can get the DMOC and replace the controller board with a Huebner board. I have done it and it's not too difficult. CM600dy-12nf IGBTs give 600v and 600a.
I replaced the gate drivers with the openinverter pcbs, but Collin Kidder from evtv has the pinout for the Siemens gate driver board. I'll look around and see if I can find it.

[esoneson]

If I am not mistaken, Damien's tests for MG1 and MG2 were conducted using only one phase for each test before the Prius shut down. So 250 and 360 amps represents 1/3 of the potential total amps possible for each motor.

[slow67]

If I am not mistaken, Damien's tests for MG1 and MG2 were conducted using only one phase for each test before the Prius shut down. So 250 and 360 amps represents 1/3 of the potential total amps possible for each motor.

That only applies to a brushed motor. PMSM motors only have positive voltage applied to 1 phase at any one time.

[mdrobnak]

If I am not mistaken, Damien's tests for MG1 and MG2 were conducted using only one phase for each test before the Prius shut down. So 250 and 360 amps represents 1/3 of the potential total amps possible for each motor.

You are right it was only one phase, but I don't think it can be linearly scaled like that. But we will get numbers soon.

Edit: Someone more knowledgeable answered before I hit the post button.

[Kevin Sharpe]

Oooh! That's nice. And that definitely makes it the right way to go.

Road testing the Siemens motor and Prius Inverter getting close;

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=488&p=8964#p8959

[mdrobnak]

I've sourced a torque monster - HVH250-115-DOM for a good price. Now the issue is the opposite of the Siemens - this one would _like_ more current. I'm OK with constant toque ending around 6k so 400-500V, but to get that sweet,sweet 480Nm needs 700A of current.

Sooo..Damien - how's running the outputs in parallel coming? Is this purely a software change?

Also whats the usual calculation of torque vs current - is it linear or non-linear?

-Matt

[arber333]

I've sourced a torque monster - HVH250-115-DOM for a good price. Now the issue is the opposite of the Siemens - this one would _like_ more current. I'm OK with constant toque ending around 6k so 400-500V, but to get that sweet,sweet 480Nm needs 700A of current.

Sooo..Damien - how's running the outputs in parallel coming? Is this purely a software change?

Also whats the usual calculation of torque vs current - is it linear or non-linear?

-Matt

WoW! I never saw that one. Is it Remy with windings in paralel or delta? How does it work?
I got one here and it is 350A max rated. Works with Volt inverter.
I am now trying to build dual sides controler from Volt inverter. Since both sides are the same 600A IGBT i think it is safe to try. I do think i need to somehow average current sensor reading.
Fault and temp sensors are already setup and working.
Both sides are driven through a SN74LS06 inverter signal chip. This prevents nasty surprises from STM32 chip.

For testing this i will need a serious load! Like Leaf motor and 2x Volt battery packs. Maybe your motor would agree...

A

[mdrobnak]

As I understand it, it is parallel wingdings.
I wonder what the IGBTs in this inverter are? 600A is nice.