Spot market prices in Germany

[johu]

Prices are going crazy, look at this:

You actually get PAID to use electricity, so much even that it outweighs the various fees (16 ct around here). Thought I'd charge the car today, then saw tomorrows prices, where I'll get payed 35 ct/kWh to use up the surplus.

Sad part: look at the evening prices when the stupid gas peakers need to kick in. We need grid scale batteries fast, that's 100% renewable solved in the sunny months.

And lets face it: part of the negative prices is payed with tax money. PV and I think wind also are guaranteed a minimum feed in tariff. So time to straighten this out.

Would happily help out with my local storage (55 kWh in Touran) but rules and lack of IT keep me from it

"Funny" twist: our current minister of economics tries to hinder grid scale batteries and deploy more gas peakers. Never heard that one of these can turn surplus electricity into gas.

[muehlpower]

I think we need to break this issue down into two areas. The first is bridging the gap for one or two days. A battery storage system is suitable for this. The bigger problem is the winter season, when energy demand is high but PV output is low. A combination of power-to-gas and gas-fired power plants could be a solution here.

[johu]

Yes absolutely, that's what I meant by "sunny months".
In winter of course more wind turbines help but the gap where they don't produce enough is longer than the PV gap. It's often an entire week with very little wind onshore.
Batteries can help there as well as they can be charged at night with wind and gas or whatever else and then shave the peaks during the day.

[jrbe]

Geothermal power plants will be the future once we figure them out.
I'd be interested in how vertical East West biaxial panels do as a portion of solar to help fill the gaps.

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

Winter solution is hydro via reservoirs.

Dams usually take multiple years to fill. A 6 month seasonal swing is nothing. Doesn't even need a river, just a high and a low, pump back and forth. Flooded mines, etc. Spend half a year banking for the winter.

[johu]

Yes lets see if the net cost of geothermal can compete with PV+wind+batteries. Would be a pretty good constant electricity and heat source. Apparently also a source of Lithium that's in the water being pumped up.

To my knowledge hydro potential is exhausted in Germany at around 10 GW. And of course they require a lot of construction work and thus changes to the ecosystems they occupy. In other countries there is more potential but the environmental implications remain.

Only earned 35 ct today by using 15 kWh. My friends car was already full in the core time around 2 pm. Next time he must arrive at lower SoC

Others did a better job:

[muehlpower]

If I understand correctly, this negative electricity price applies when there is an oversupply. This tends to happen on sunny days. It wouldn’t work for me, since I’d have to feed my PV electricity into the grid and buy electricity at the same time. So it’s only for people without a PV system or with a small one.

[szzer]

You can also turn off the solar panels, and consume as much as you can.

The Dutch energy prices were negatieve today als well. Therefore my home assistant turned of my solar system and we charged the ev, home battery.

Note: the energy prices stated here are before taxes.

Managing to score a consumption of 70kwh today.
Getting payed about 10 euro or so for it.