CAN / LIN Bus Logging Road Trip

[Jack Bauer]

So we have never had so many ev parts available to us as we do today. An amazing amount have been reverse engineered to allow use in conversions but so many more are still left on the shelf because we don't know how to run them. The biggest tool by far that we lack are logs from the parent vehicle. In an effort to remedy that I am planning a trip to EVBreakers in Northern Ireland : https://www.evbreakers.com/

Now as some of you may know I live in County Cork in the Republic Of Ireland which is almost on the other end of the island:) It will be an almost 500 mile road trip and while I appreciate that is only around the corner for some folks its a significant journey for me and I am asking for some help.

-What I need is for some folks to get together a list of vehicles we need to log based on EVBreakers stock : https://www.evbreakers.com/donor-cars

-Figure out what parts we are interested in e.g. ptc heater, charger, dcdc etc

-Figure out what bus they are on and where to access it with wiring diagram screenshots or color codes etc.

In general make it possible for me to get as many logs as easily and as quickly as possible. I'll get a GitHub repo setup and of course all logs will be freely available.

This could be a great opportunity to boost the amount of components available for conversions worldwide but I'm going to be honest : If no one bothers to put some effort into this then neither will I.

[Alibro]

I have ordered a few different LIN to UART adapters to see if I can get some logs from my MG5.
I'm pretty useless at many things and I've been struggling to get CAN from the ODB2 port never mind LIN but will keep trying and report back.

[nkiernan]

Not sure if this will be of any use. I tried to work through EVBreakers' advertised vehicles for breaking separating out year and trim. There's a column that could track the component/system of interest against any make/model. If helpful, what's the best way to make it editable for everyone else!?

EVBreakers_Stock_List_CSV.csv

(10.21 KiB) Downloaded 22 times

[Scrappyjoe]

Looking toward the future, I think that the breaker EV mix will include many more Chinese brands than there currently are. BYD are leading the pack here in the developing world, and they will dominate EV junk yards here in 5 years. I just really hope that they standardise their CANBUS protocol rather than adopting an adhoc approach to their models.

The EV Breakers website has 3 BYD Seals listed. Two things to target would be the battery pack CAN comms, and the drive unit.

Battery pack CAN Comms are already an area of interest for the Battery-Emulator project, and time is limited, so I'd focus on the drive unit.

A little bit of research suggests that this could be quite a difficult unit to reverse engineer. They call it the '8 in 1 powertrain', and it appears that the following items are all integrated in the same unit:

- Vehicle Control Unit (VCU): Oversees the vehicle's systems
- Battery Management System (BMS): Regulates the battery
- Motor Control Unit (MCU): Manages the motor
- Power Distribution Unit (PDU): Allocates power
- DC-DC Controller: Controls the DC-DC power
- On-board Charger: Replenishes the battery
- Drive Motor: Propels the vehicle
- Transmission: Manages gear shifting

Some of that smells a bit 'hype-ey' - I mean, the transmission is just the diff. And I'm pretty sure the battery pack communicates with the VCU via CANbus, so there's some BMS stuff happening in the pack.

That said, I think that setting the goal of reverse engineering one of these units is a pretty good one. You get everything in one package, it's compact, and it would dramatically simplify an EV conversion. You don't have to design complex coolant lines and 12v cable routing, no welding of lots of brackets to fit the various components.

Regarding what to log, I'd be curious as to what data this unit needs to operate correctly. Presumably a lot of the data it needs is communicated inside the unit. I'd imagine it would need lots of 'keepalive' frames from the various peripherals on the vehicle, along with some pretty high resolution data from the battery pack. But I can't imagine what else it would need, assuming the throttle pedal connects via an analog cable.

Edit to add more links etc:

Markslines teardown intro page: https://www.marklines.com/en/teardown/f ... _2023my_eu . It looks like the physical motor/diff can be separated from the all-in-one 'powertrain domain controller'. The image at that page suggests there is a single comms input, and it looks pretty small.

This YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjk_9xHtq68 states that, in addition to the drivetrain controller, there are 3 other ECUs in the seal - a left side, a right side, and a multimedia ECU. So I'd hazard that it's the comms from the left and right ECU to the powertrain that is worth logging. Presumably something like a throttle pedal is connected to one of those ECUs, and the CAN data from that ECU is sending instructions to the powertrain controller.

[Jack Bauer]

Thanks for the comments folks but just to be clear I am asking the community to help make a list of vehicles , wiring diagram shots and shots of where to tap into the relevant busses with pin numbers and wire colours where possible. I'm not going to do a journey like this to get one or two logs.

[jrbe]

Not sure if this will be of any use. I tried to work through EVBreakers' advertised vehicles for breaking separating out year and trim. There's a column that could track the component/system of interest against any make/model. If helpful, what's the best way to make it editable for everyone else!?

EVBreakers_Stock_List_CSV.csv

Should we put nkiernan's list up on say google drive / sheets so anyone can edit it with info / details? This way, anyone willing to help can add links, pictures, etc. for each vehicle / what Damien needs to be able to do this.

[Matoleno]

I thinks this is great idea Damien.
When are you planning to embark on this great roadtrip?

now Im have not done an EV conversion yet (one day I hope I will), so Im not sure which parts would be usefull but here is my guess/suggestion:
- Motor/Inverter
- DC/DC conv
- Charger
- Cabin Heater
- Battery heater
- Gear shifter
- Battery module
- Electro Hydraulic Break Booster

I have also used the csv shared earlier and added some more info and suggestions.
I do have a service manual for HG5 so I have included as much relevan info there. (if more info is needed for MG5 by anyone, just ask)

[Jack Bauer]

Ballpark plan is in about 2 weeks or so.

[Jack Bauer]

Scheduled the trip for 20th of this month. Would appreciate an assist here folks.

[neelkanth]

I would also like to assist in the logging project, I have a Toyota Alphard ATH20W Hybrid on the way that I plan to convert fully electric. The benefit being I will have a running car at first from which we should be able to extract all the canbus and sync serial data from the stock system just as Toyota would be running it from factory. It also has an “EV ONLY” mode which would be best to start logging the EV specific data.

I would like to know what data you guys would need to assist with logging. I’m not familiar with toyota serial sync but I am with Canbus and J2534 OBD. Can you point me in the right direction where to learn about the serial sync and what type of logic analyser would work for it?

Interesting thing the ATH20W has 3 MG units, MG1, MG2 and MGR. So for anyone wanting to do a AWD/4WD project, it has a compact 3-in-1 inverter unit that can be used to control the whole powertrain. The Alphard is pretty common in the UK but I’m not sure when or if it will show up on EVBreakers. Although I believe with the running vehicle that I will have might be easier to log and sniff the protocols used, right?

[Jack Bauer]

One last request for help.

[Alibro]

After fighting with AI for a while I eventually persuaded it to come up with the following list of EV's sold in the last 10 years in the UK.

Make & Model ...................Approx. Total Sales
Tesla Model 3........................~97,227
Tesla Model Y........................~70,743
Nissan Leaf...........................~58,463
BMW i3................................~25,000
Kia Niro EV............................~28,000
Volkswagen ID.3.....................~30,000–35,000
Volkswagen ID.4.....................~25,000–30,000
Renault Zoe..........................~20,000+
Audi Q4 e-tron.......................~15,000+
MG ZS EV / MG4.....................~60,000+ (combined)

I don't know how helpful this is but it may indicate the most common parts that will be available so maybe we should concentrate on those.