[DRIVING] Leaf to VW Type 2 Campervan

[ianlighting]

this temperature is quite normal, there is no need to worry.
for the inverter, anything above 80° is critical, and the motor can tolerate 130° in long climbs.

Well it’s good to hear the motor is fine with it, but as the coolant loop is shared with the PDM and Inverter, it sounds like I should make some changes to make sure I don’t over heat the inverter.

I hit the 80 degrees when I was 2 miles from the destination, so I just let off the speed a bit to give it a chance to cool a little. But it’s possible I could be driving in an even hotter day in the future.

[Romale]

if you add two more fans on the other side of the radiator, but on the "other" side, so that the air flows together, your problem will be solved.

[ianlighting]

if you add two more fans on the other side of the radiator, but on the "other" side, so that the air flows together, your problem will be solved.

Due to lack of space (or just bad planning) I had to put the fans on that side of the rad. But I set them to suck instead of blow, so they are working with the same flow of air from the vehicle moving forwards. But I can look into options like additional fans to see what difference it makes.

[marcexec]

Ian, would you be able to contribute some slides for our stand at Dublin Maker(viewtopic.php?p=82115)?
There's an active VW scene around here, so the question of "so how would you convert a VW bus?" is bound to come up

[ianlighting]

Ian, would you be able to contribute some slides for our stand at Dublin Maker(viewtopic.php?p=82115)?
There's an active VW scene around here, so the question of "so how would you convert a VW bus?" is bound to come up

Yes I could do that. I’ll drop you a PM

[ianlighting]

Old radiator didn’t cut it when it got 30 degrees outside recently, so I’ve upgraded to a super widescreen version.

I’ll see how it copes with just my 2 fans, but there’s space to add another at each end if it needs more blow. Actually it’s suck so the air goes the same direction when moving.

(Yes, I forgot to cut the metal frame around the left hand fan, so airflow is a bit restricted there. Annoying, but will have to undo it again)


In other news, I thought I’d share that I found these labour saving whizzy connectors to be really sh!t. Maybe I’m just doing it wrong, as someone once said, but I’ve had to progressively replace all of these with good old fashioned solder and heat shrink. I’d used them on my BMS cell tap extensions, but I kept seeing odd cells here and there showing increasing voltage from the average. Nothing serious, but enough to notice it was out of spec compared to its neighbours. Every time I’ve redone the connection the cell voltages return to average / normal. Thank you to Leaf Spy for giving me the insight to know there was something to get sorted. Ive now replaced all of them.

One thing Ive not been able to sort yet is getting my fancy flip out screen 4g android media centre thing to connect to the dongle in the VCU box to show me LeafSpy on the dash. Means I’m still having to use my iPhone instead of the display in front of me. I’ve got another dongle to try before the frustration kicks in.


I’ve also just checked, and double checked, my mileage. Since my first visit to a public charger 3 months ago, I’ve done 1100 miles! Pretty astounded by that. But I’m chuffed that I’ve done that without any calamities. A few minor incremental improvements but no major reworking required.


All hail to LeafSpy and my nice healthy looking battery pack!

[Bratitude]

I find, (like all crimp connectors) the proper tool is key.

Those but connectors can be great when crimped and sized right. Used many ring terminal ones for bms taps.

What radiator is that? looks like would be a good fit for my Datsun!

Are you still running that same pack that you charged cell 55 back up? Looks happy

[ianlighting]

I find, (like all crimp connectors) the proper tool is key.

Those but connectors can be great when crimped and sized right. Used many ring terminal ones for bms taps.

What radiator is that? looks like would be a good fit for my Datsun!

Are you still running that same pack that you charged cell 55 back up? Looks happy

Could well be my fault on the crimping. All happy now is the main thing.

Here’s the rad. I needed to use 22-19mm 90 degree reducing hose bends on the inlet/outlet to match the leaf hoses.

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/ridex/16149250

If you do get one, be aware that the dimension in the blurb is for the metal area, and it doesn’t show the full distance including the plastic stuff at the end. From memory it’s about another 100mm but happy to measure it if you want.

And yes, same pack with my sulky cell 55. It’s been fine since the recharge of that cell. It’s always a bit below the rest when charging up, but at the bottom end is usually pretty average level. The only thing that I posted on a while back was it got very pissed off being asked to work hard when I was down to 5% Soc. So I don’t do that


Thanks for the various pointers you’ve shared along the way. I’ve still got stuff to do to this project before I’m done done, but I think the hard stuff is mainly over.

[Jacobsmess]

Not tested in anger yet but those heat shrink butt connectors with glue and some solder in the middle seem to be working quite well for me so far.

[ianlighting]

Not tested in anger yet but those heat shrink butt connectors with glue and some solder in the middle seem to be working quite well for me so far.

Are you running a build page? Haven’t noticed it pop up.

[ianlighting]

Here’s a question for anyone who’s listening. A little way off in the future I intend to mount my Chademo port to the side of the bus behind a filler flap.

It’s a little hard to be sure, but it could be the case that I’m going to have to extend the existing 35mm2 (im guessing) Chademo cables a short amount to reach the port. Not by much, but if I have to, my question is what’s the best way to splice new cable to existing cable ends?

Just use lugs on both ends and bolt together? Or is there a better solution?

[Jacobsmess]

Are you running a build page? Haven’t noticed it pop up.

No, I keep meaning to but my progress is so embarrassingly slow and my time so limited that I haven't gotten around to it.

[Bratitude]

Thanks, you’ve done great so far, and over come and learned a lot. just happy to see another classic roaming around on electrons.

For CHAdeMO cable just cut and splice with some but splices. No need to crimp terminal lugs and bolt together.

https://www.termtech.co.uk/Catalogue/Cr ... -35mm-BS35

Essentially big version of those splices you have trouble with

Or just stick CHAdeMO behind your license plate flap

[T1Terry]

Old radiator didn’t cut it when it got 30 degrees outside recently, so I’ve upgraded to a super widescreen version.

I’ll see how it copes with just my 2 fans, but there’s space to add another at each end if it needs more blow. Actually it’s suck so the air goes the same direction when moving.

IMG_8743.jpeg
(Yes, I forgot to cut the metal frame around the left hand fan, so airflow is a bit restricted there. Annoying, but will have to undo it again)


In other news, I thought I’d share that I found these labour saving whizzy connectors to be really sh!t. Maybe I’m just doing it wrong, as someone once said, but I’ve had to progressively replace all of these with good old fashioned solder and heat shrink. I’d used them on my BMS cell tap extensions, but I kept seeing odd cells here and there showing increasing voltage from the average. Nothing serious, but enough to notice it was out of spec compared to its neighbours. Every time I’ve redone the connection the cell voltages return to average / normal. Thank you to Leaf Spy for giving me the insight to know there was something to get sorted. Ive now replaced all of them.

IMG_8745.jpeg


One thing Ive not been able to sort yet is getting my fancy flip out screen 4g android media centre thing to connect to the dongle in the VCU box to show me LeafSpy on the dash. Means I’m still having to use my iPhone instead of the display in front of me. I’ve got another dongle to try before the frustration kicks in.


I’ve also just checked, and double checked, my mileage. Since my first visit to a public charger 3 months ago, I’ve done 1100 miles! Pretty astounded by that. But I’m chuffed that I’ve done that without any calamities. A few minor incremental improvements but no major reworking required.


All hail to LeafSpy and my nice healthy looking battery pack!

IMG_8747.png

First thing to mention, the air does not necessarily from front to back at the rear of a Kombi, that is why there are air scoops on the side and a foam seal to keep the cold air being fed through the ICE ..... leave the rear engine door open and the motor will overheat.

Are the side air scoops still operational? If so, I'd mount the radiators under those so the air is scooped from up high on the Kombi side and force through the radiator and the fan/s on the underside to draw the cool air though.

Next, did you use a hot enough air gun and ensure the wires to be joined were spliced together and then the connector slide over the top to allow the solder in the centre to melt through the spliced conductors while the heatshrink each end ensures the cable insulation is both held firm and water tight .....

Crimp connector are entirely different, I never use them with the insulation still on the outside, no way of seeing if both conductors slide through until the ends show before crimping the lug .... best ensure you have the appropriate piece of heatshrink on the cable before crimping the connector .... no point for guessing why I mentioned that

T1 Terry

[ianlighting]

For CHAdeMO cable just cut and splice with some but splices. No need to crimp terminal lugs and bolt together.

https://www.termtech.co.uk/Catalogue/Cr ... -35mm-BS35

Essentially big version of those splices you have trouble with

Ah… simple when you know, thanks.

[jerrykco]

Ah… simple when you know, thanks.

For those in the USA https://www.tme.com/us/en-us/details/kl ... a-35-32-1/

[ianlighting]

First thing to mention, the air does not necessarily from front to back at the rear of a Kombi, that is why there are air scoops on the side and a foam seal to keep the cold air being fed through the ICE ..... leave the rear engine door open and the motor will overheat.

Are the side air scoops still operational? If so, I'd mount the radiators under those so the air is scooped from up high on the Kombi side and force through the radiator and the fan/s on the underside to draw the cool air though.

Next, did you use a hot enough air gun and ensure the wires to be joined were spliced together and then the connector slide over the top to allow the solder in the centre to melt through the spliced conductors while the heatshrink each end ensures the cable insulation is both held firm and water tight .....

Crimp connector are entirely different, I never use them with the insulation still on the outside, no way of seeing if both conductors slide through until the ends show before crimping the lug .... best ensure you have the appropriate piece of heatshrink on the cable before crimping the connector .... no point for guessing why I mentioned that

T1 Terry

Yes, original side scoops are still there. It’s occurred to me that these could be a drag on efficiency, but never explored that thought any further. The mileage I’ve achieved 150+ is pretty good, so not too concerned now. Probably negligible compared to the front face of the vehicle!

My plan for the next step is to have a level steel sheet across the engine bay (level with 12v battery etc) instead of the wide open space I currently have. This will keep the radiator below that sheet and maximise the air flow from forward motion through that rad, without it radiating back up into the engine bay area.

Above the sheet there is potential for the warmth of the motor to just sit in that space, but I intend to have an opening at the front of the space to encourage air flow. Maybe at the back aswell.

…

The connectors appeared to be good at first, and in most cases for a good amount of miles, but obviously it didn’t work for me long term. so either I or the connectors were at fault. They were good to start but over time I saw progressively more indications of poor connections, which I dealt with. I’ve not done a forensics analysis to know why it happened.

But a good lesson for me and anyone else is not to let your guard down. Just because something on your DIY job seems good at first, don’t assume it’s good forever. I’m very well aware of my own skill level (learning) which makes me ultra cautious. So I’m always looking at LeafSpy (which is what alerted me to the problems in the first place). And my wife was delighted to spend our recent journey to the festival reading out mV cell deltas and battery and motor temperature readouts!

[ianlighting]

Had a message last night from someone wanting more detail on my radiator, so adding it here for general consumption.

Big caveat, I’m not holding this up and proclaiming ‘This is the way’. I genuinely have no idea if I’m doing it right. Just following my flaky intuition to see where it goes. I’ve got no empirical evidence to say this is a good way to do it. Most car radiators are obvs on the front of a vehicle, so can’t avoid being exposed to air movements to dissipate heat. Being stuck at the back on a T2, means all sorts of other airflows and negative pressures are probably involved, but since I don’t have a wind tunnel and smoke trails to test anything I’m just making it up to see what happens.

But off the back of T1Terry’s comments and then the message last night I did have a brief google. The Samba forum is usually a good source of classic VW engineering knowledge. Poking about in there led me to a build page which was actually an EV conversion, even though I was really interested in tracking down original ICE based air flows. Then that build page eventually points back to this forum! I’ve not been through it all, but suggest could be worth others reviewing before copying my approach.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... &start=160

But here’s a few more pics of what Ive done so far

Top of rad approx 100mm below engine bay floor…

Very rough CAD to indicate the sheet I intend to place around the motor, at the same height as the current floor

From the side

[T1Terry]

Much easier to mount the radiators at the base of those air vents each side and simply leave the area around the motor open to allow the air to escape.
If you want to close it in, you will need to make it air tight and mount the radiator flat across the back, inserted into the air sealing plates with the fans under it, so the pressurised air can only escape through the radiator and into the low pressure area created under the rear of the bodywork.

Countless attempts at mounting cooling radiators when alternative water cooled ICE propulsion was used, always ended up with the radiator at the front, or fancy ducting to get the air from the side scoops to blow down through the radiator and out under the rear of the body.
If there was sufficient airflow under a Kombi to act as a cooling medium, the Kombi would be almost undrivable because it would lift the body the higher the speed due to increased air speed under the body ...... in fact, the vacuum formed under a Kombi makes it very stable at speed and was designed that way to draw cold air through the side vents and create a positive pressure in the engine compartment to force feed the cooling fan and the vacuum created under the rear sucks the hot air out of the air cooled petrol engine.

I am a mechanic by trade, owned a lot of VW Kombis since I was 18, I'm 70 now, worked on a lot of customers Kombis and fibreglass kit cars based on the beetle platform .... cooling has always been the major issue

The system is designed to work this way ..... no value in bashing your head against a wall trying to make it work differently.

T1 Terry

[ianlighting]

Thanks for all that info Terry, much appreciated.

Had I known your knowledge beforehand that would have steered my approach I’m sure. Given I’ve got to the stage I’m at already, and that I only need to get a slight improvement on my v1 rad attempt to accommodate the hottest days here in the uk I’m going to see how this v2 behaves. I’ll report back once I get another chance to do a decent drive on a 30 degree day to compare to my original radiator setup.

What you say makes a lot of sense now I pause to think about those final generation Brazilian T2 with water cooled engines. Those engines were still in the back, but with that huge black plastic grill stuck on the front for the radiator (horrible!). I guess if vw had to do it that way, it’s not surprising that’s the best approach.

Plenty to think through, thanks for sharing.

BTW - I did once drive a T2 from Sydney, up to Cairns, then back down the coast, across to the middle and up to Darwin! A few adventures, but it didn’t die on me!

Edit - I’ve assumed you’re in Australia, but maybe I imagined that, can’t remember why that’s where I’ve placed you.

[T1Terry]

Yeah, originally from Wollongong and later Lake Illawarra NSW, moved the Mannum South Australia, on the Murray River, beautiful place, slow paced ..... we went there to buy a big workshop so we could go commercial with our lithium battery based off grid systems for motorhomes, caravans and off grid houses ..... that was burnt to the ground roughly 2 1/2 yrs ago, then 12 mths ago this mth, our house burnt to the ground .... fortunately, the firies saved my '74 Kombi, but we lost yet another motorhome ..... so now we are traveling in a 2002 Winnebago motorhome while we decide if we rebuild on the block or buy else where. The workshop yard has my collection of vehicles .... I think it is at 16 now, 4 of them are for parts, a Lexus GS 450h, an MG4 64 stat write off, an MG4 51 repairable write off and an ex taxi '08 gen 2 Prius with 760,000kms on the clock.

We are back in the Lake Illawarra area waiting for a grandson to arrive at the moment, then we'll head back to Mannum for a while

T1 Terry

[T1Terry]

If you mount the radiator where the stick is

Kombi radiator.jpeg (48.36 KiB) Viewed 810 times

laying flat and fill in around it with an aluminium sheet, the fans under it and that will probably give you the level of cooling improvement you need.

I've been enjoying reading your thread so far, might get me to start on the Prius to Kombi conversion when I get back to Mannum .... if I can just get the wife to loosen the money bag strings so I can have a shed built

T1 Terry

[ianlighting]

You have been through a lot there Terry. And to have 2 fires must have been even more soul destroying. Hard to find suitable words.


But thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge on kombi air flows. I had started thinking along similar lines to that last suggestion you’ve just given. So that’ll be my v3. But going to road test v2 first so I have comparison data. I don’t doubt what you say at all, just like to do the experiment for myself to see how it works out.

Cheers

[T1Terry]

You have been through a lot there Terry. And to have 2 fires must have been even more soul destroying. Hard to find suitable words.


But thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge on kombi air flows. I had started thinking along similar lines to that last suggestion you’ve just given. So that’ll be my v3. But going to road test v2 first so I have comparison data. I don’t doubt what you say at all, just like to do the experiment for myself to see how it works out.

Cheers

That is the only way to verify if you are being led astray or in the right direction. I could never be an "ENGINEER" that simply looks up tech sheets and determines that is what the result will be, without actually testing my theory/understanding of what I read.

The age-old argument about connecting batteries in a parallel daisy chain v positive at one end of the parallel string and negative at the end v building voltage at cell level in parallel and capacity with these parallel cell groups in series.

This was argued out with teaching professors and engineer on a number of forums .... so to finally settle it once and for all, I set up a demonstration at an RV get together, probably 200 people turned up. Connected up current measurement between batteries in the first parallel daisy chain string, the way practically every motorhome and caravan builder fits them, 50 amp load, first battery supplied 40 amps. second battery 7 amps, third battery 3 amps, fourth battery, nothing ..... these were all 100Ah lithium batteries, the professor and engineers said lithium batteries has so little internal resistance, it wouldn't make any difference

The positive at one end and negative at the other, the end with the negative connection supplied the most, the one with the positive came second and the middle to made a token effort .....

Naturally, the cells in parallel groups connected in series, each cell group supplied the same current and each cell voltage remained with in 0.005v of any cell in the parallel group due to the internal resistance of each cell, but without demonstrating it and putting it up on the big screen for all to see, it was still an argument at theoretical level.

The proof is in the pudding I think the old saying goes

T1 Terry

[ianlighting]

Insurance renewal - I’m doing this all wrong aswell…

Just paid for Annual renewal - £217.24

I know it’s supposed to be very expensive and other people find price and problems doing their insurance, but somehow I’m getting an excellent deal.
Things I think are in my favour..
- kept in garage, although the driveway cost was only £10 more.
- limited mileage to 3000.
- Classic car. Talking to the chap, he said the underwriters don’t seem to mind how it’s powered if it’s standard classic car body.

If you’re in the uk with a classic EV conversion and struggling to find somewhere, try Sterling, although I think the better known Adrian Flux also use the same underwriters - Trinity Lane.