Type 2 to CHAdeMO Converter/Charger?

[Laugh2]

Hi, I would like to find (or construct?) a unit to convert Type 2 to CHAdeMO at up to about 22 kW. Since we have an Gen 2 Prius PHV (aka Prime) with CHAdeMO, which was imported from Japan, then this converter would enable me to fast charge from an AC source.

Our Prius has a 3.3kW onboard AC charging system, which takes almost 2 hours to charge on AC. However, the CHAdeMO charging system takes 15min to 20min at 15kW to 17kW, depending on temperature etc. So for us the reasons are:

• 1. There are many more Type 2 (and J-1772) stations available than CHAdeMO, CCS-SAE, and Tesla chargers combined (and likely to remain so).
  
  2. The Type 2 points are not just more plentiful but are often immediately available whereas the CHAdeMO (and CCS) chargers are often in use or have a queue (... at least where I live).
  
  3. Installation and maintenance of charging points is much cheaper for AC than DC, so in future AC charging points will remain more plentiful and will more frequently provide low-cost charging. Hence retailers, employers, public services, etc. can afford AC chargers. The result is that non-domestic AC charging points will remain more plentiful and much cheaper than DC into the future (and more often be free-of-cost).
  
  4. In many places 22kW is easy to install domestically so fast charging at home at 22kW becomes possible. Since the Prius's CHAdeMO has a max.power of 17kW then for me this would represent fast charging at its best.
  
  5. We can charge much faster using CHAdeMO (DC) than using AC.

For these reasons I can also imagine that many EV owners would be interested in this converter, especially if it also has CCS as an output. 22kW may not compete with 350kW DC for speed, but 22kW is plenty when shopping, in the cinema, or having food or rest stops on road trips.

I have found something similar to buy in the internet:

• https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 3e33zicR4A

but this leaves the rectification up to the onboard charging system, I think. Although different, related posts include:

• viewtopic.php?t=1063
  viewtopic.php?t=4422

Does anyone know of a Type 2 to CHAdeMO Converter to buy? or if it would be easy to construct?

[johu]

You can't really call this a "converter" it is rather a full blown charger that converts AC to DC power using power electronics.
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005005817982041.html

I built something like that in the past: viewtopic.php?t=763

[Laugh2]

Thank you. True - I've changed the title to Converter/Charger. There do seem to be a number of 15kW to 20kW, 3 phase rectifiers for CHAdeMO/CCS/etc on the market of vastly differing price and possibly quality:

• https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 61093.html for US$ 560 to US$ 1,815
  https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 65372.html for approx.$US 600
  https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005006719059444.html for US$ 3,200
  https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005006908881291.html for US$ 6,000

however, they don't mention using a Type 2 input. I am presuming that the 5 input cables for these units are for 3 phase power with neutral and protective earth connections.

The bench size rig you created also uses a 3 phase input although you do mention using a Type 2 input towards the end of the video. While yours is a really interesting proof-of-concept project it's probably not quite ready for a home DIY person to attempt due safety (as mentioned in the video) and possible issues with transients, etc and stability under full load.

Which means that even with those bought rectifiers there would still need to be an additional unit to use the Type 2 input. Presumably there is also a need to communicate control info through relevant circuitry to the CHAdeMO connector. Presumably too, there is also a little "translating" of signalling necessary along the way? Would this be a difficult DIY project?

[uhi22]

Could the following concept work:
- for the high-power stuff use a 22kW charger from a car. This takes 3 phase AC and provides HV DC. I think Damien reverse-engineered a MG charger which seems to be controllable via CAN easily.
- into the type 2 direction, use an Arduino which measures the CP PWM and controls the State C.
- into the Chademo direction, the Arduino talks CAN and controls some relays.
- This would require two CAN on the Arduino, one for controlling the charger, one to talk chademo to the vehicle.
Doable?

[Edit] Or, wait: in best case, the OBC is handling the type 2 stuff already (measuring CP, PP, switching state C). So the only missing piece would be a "bridge" between the OBC CAN on the one side and the Chademo (CAN, relays) on the other side.

[grgumxlm]

I am working on this project for many months. I hope to release a full build documentation on this in the next months.
The part you seem to be struggling with is by far the most simple one. You want 22kW power from a type2 socket you can in general find on the streets. Nothing more simple then that with even OpenHardware PCB solution:
https://evsim.gonium.net
https://github.com/gonium/EVSE-Car-Simulator

In very short: You use the 220Ohm resistor to simulate a 32A cable plug, connect a type2 plug from a broken car charging cable you can get for really cheep used online (dont destroy a fully working cable!) and at the other cable end you install the typical red 32A CEE socket. Done.



Everything else is the complicated part of the portable opensource chademo charger project. Not this

[Laugh2]

I am working on this project for many months. I hope to release a full build documentation on this in the next months.
The part you seem to be struggling with is by far the most simple one. You want 22kW power from a type2 socket you can in general find on the streets. Nothing more simple then that with even OpenHardware PCB solution:
https://evsim.gonium.net
https://github.com/gonium/EVSE-Car-Simulator

In very short: You use the 220Ohm resistor to simulate a 32A cable plug, connect a type2 plug from a broken car charging cable you can get for really cheep used online (dont destroy a fully working cable!) and at the other cable end you install the typical red 32A CEE socket. Done.

(image here)

Everything else is the complicated part of the portable opensource chademo charger project. Not this

Great. That'd suit us very well in combination with a suitable rectifier. There are 32A CEE sockets for both single and three phase systems. To confirm, you are indeed working on a 3-phase version (for 22kW) rather than a single-phase version (for 7kW)? I think the red sockets are for the higher voltage than blue sockets - so you are indeed working on 32A, 3-phase, max.480V supply, correct?

[arber333]

I am working on this project for many months. I hope to release a full build documentation on this in the next months.
The part you seem to be struggling with is by far the most simple one. You want 22kW power from a type2 socket you can in general find on the streets. Nothing more simple then that with even OpenHardware PCB solution:
https://evsim.gonium.net
https://github.com/gonium/EVSE-Car-Simulator

In very short: You use the 220Ohm resistor to simulate a 32A cable plug, connect a type2 plug from a broken car charging cable you can get for really cheep used online (dont destroy a fully working cable!) and at the other cable end you install the typical red 32A CEE socket. Done.



Everything else is the complicated part of the portable opensource chademo charger project. Not this

Hm... you could be using ESP32 chip for AC and DC side control. You would need two CAN bus transcievers.

Now one problem to solve was already solved for us i think. TomDB or was it Damien (?) designed Tesla gen2 board which will measure Cp signal and determine how much will EVSE allow you to charge.
Also I managed to use outlander charger CAN report in which it states value of CP PWM duty in %. I can use this for AC side command.

Then you need to talk either BMS or a simple HMI to fix the endpoint voltage and DC current amps. When BMS is not involved you may only achieve about 80% charge due to springiness nature of Liion battey.

[grgumxlm]

Hm... you could be using ESP32 ...

I have never seen any active CP load balancing in real life on public chargers. Have you ever measured a CP that tried to drop the consumed power?

[uhi22]

There are also 11kW public chargers, and drawing 22kW from them could blow the fuse. Means: evaluating the PWM makes sense.
And: There are public chargers with fix cable and plug. Means: Having a type 2 socket in the charger gives more flexibility.

[arber333]

There are also 11kW public chargers, and drawing 22kW from them could blow the fuse. Means: evaluating the PWM makes sense.
And: There are public chargers with fix cable and plug. Means: Having a type 2 socket in the charger gives more flexibility.

I just tested one EVSE limited to 10kW but it had PWM signal of 56%!!! This means you could pull 22kW off it if you drove by with correct cable and of course you would trip the fuse.

But i did see EVSE command less power. This happens when there is someone allready on the charge and another car connects. Then 22kW EVSE will command 26% on each socket Cp. There were instances EVSE would command lower than 10kW and drop out because my charger wouldnt conform.

I can now command Cp change on my diy EVSE and charger will respond actively as it should. The problem of all those EVSEs is that they are made by lazy designers who charged a lot of €€€ but delivered nothing more than my diyEVSE already is. No fancy intelligence or connectivity...

[grgumxlm]

There are also 11kW public chargers, and drawing 22kW from them could blow the fuse. Means: evaluating the PWM makes sense.
And: There are public chargers with fix cable and plug. Means: Having a type 2 socket in the charger gives more flexibility.

The power of the chargers is listed in the public databases or its data is printed on the charger itself (better check online databases).
Of course you should not try to pull 22kW out of a rated 11kW charger. The power would be disabled by the charger.
Also there are single phase chargers with type2. But those are simple to detect by checking if you have 3 working phases on the CEE plug before charging.

About the public chargers with fixed cable - there is no need for a portable type2 socket. Just use your regular type2 plug where you have enabled the "extension"-function. This is also something people with type1 sockets inside their cars know and use for longer time. Because such people cant use the type2 plug but still need the AC power to charge their car they have to find a solution to charge with their type2-type1 cable they use in type2-chargers with sockets.
The solution is simple and the price is 0€. You have to open up the regular type2 plug you plug into the charger and swap (desolder and solder again or spend some time to release the crimp, swap and reuse the old crimp again and crimp it) the two small pins (PP and CP pin). The long one where the short one was and vice versa. Thats all. You still have a plug that works everywhere but now it can also be used to plug into other plugs. Just dont forget to take good care about the connection because there is of course no locking.

I can now command Cp change on my diy EVSE and charger will respond actively as it should. The problem of all those EVSEs is that they are made by lazy designers who charged a lot of €€€ but delivered nothing more than my diyEVSE already is. No fancy intelligence or connectivity...

Can you get more into detail how you have implemented this with your charger here? viewtopic.php?p=13250#p13250
The regular stm32 OpenInverter board use a esp8266 or esp32 connected directly to the board. With this you could use wifi and configure the speed. A second esp8266/esp32 connected to the PCB i listed above that connects to the wifi of the OpenInverter and reduce its speed automatically based on the CP value would be a nice solution.
Let me quote you here: viewtopic.php?p=10831#p10831
"Gimme code!!!!!"

[celeron55]

I built a charger like this for the Previa in 2020 from a Prius gen3 inverter.

Then fairly quickly I decided it was way too heavy to carry around so I removed the Chademo plug and permanently installed it to the car.

About a month ago I removed it from the car as it wasn't working anymore and I didn't need it anymore as I have a CCS connector on the car and CCS chargers are plentiful and way faster than any AC solution, plus the hardware that needs to be maintained on the vehicle is much simpler.

Anyway, I talked about building and coding it in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=825&start=25 (There's also other discussion in there so you'll have to browse around)

But do I recommend it? No. If I needed a high power AC charger I'd get the OEM component from a Tesla, VW, MG or something else. You save a lot of time and get a way more reliable end product.

[grgumxlm]

I like the most possible freedom those self build chargers give to the people. They are fully OpenSource and you can also name them OpenHardware.
If i choose a way too high current for the IGBT and overshoot the typical 150°C max rating of the IGBT, the IGBT would of course explode. This is full freedom combined with responsibility. You have also find out about the responsibility of choosing the correct PWM value here: viewtopic.php?p=12847#p12847
A OEM charger on the other side have some closed firmware and is by far not that free as in freedom.

Its important this code here gets updated and further developed: https://github.com/jsphuebner/stm32-charger

[arber333]

I built a charger like this for the Previa in 2020 from a Prius gen3 inverter.

......

But do I recommend it? No. If I needed a high power AC charger I'd get the OEM component from a Tesla, VW, MG or something else. You save a lot of time and get a way more reliable end product.

My EMW charger was not exactly chademo supportive, but i made my own wiring so it was connected directly to HV.
I used rectified mains from 3phase and bucked down to 400Vdc.
I did run it up to 18kW from EVSE, but while there all components were stresed to the maximum. In the end i got best results using Prius inductor and capacitor scavenged from some inverter... It did work, but the network was feeling the pain.
If you absolutely need fast charging from home i may suggest using two 10kW Tesla chargers in parallel for 20kW... Those are PFC corrected DC rails and do not affect the network as much.
And dont forget while i could make DIY charger for 800€ its reliability would mean constant expenses to keep it running...

[arber333]

...
Can you get more into detail how you have implemented this with your charger here? viewtopic.php?p=13250#p13250
The regular stm32 OpenInverter board use a esp8266 or esp32 connected directly to the board. With this you could use wifi and configure the speed. A second esp8266/esp32 connected to the PCB i listed above that connects to the wifi of the OpenInverter and reduce its speed automatically based on the CP value would be a nice solution.
Let me quote you here: viewtopic.php?p=10831#p10831
"Gimme code!!!!!"

Well if i remember correctly i have the code here: https://github.com/arber333/3phase-EMW-kind-of-charger

There was a pin on arduino mini/nano which was reading Cp signal and some logic but i didnt use it at the time as no EVSE had any dynamic protocol at the time.

[Laugh2]

I built a charger like this for the Previa in 2020 from a Prius gen3 inverter.

Then fairly quickly I decided it was way too heavy to carry around so I removed the Chademo plug and permanently installed it to the car.
...
But do I recommend it? No. If I needed a high power AC charger I'd get the OEM component from a Tesla, VW, MG or something else. You save a lot of time and get a way more reliable end product.

I originally asked the question "Type 2 to CHAdeMO Converter/Charger?" because our 2018 Prius PHV (aka Prime) has the usual 3.3kW AC port but also a CHAdeMO port, which accepts up to 17kW DC. So I wanted to make use of the increasingly plentiful public Type 2 stations offering up to 22kW (often for free still) by converting AC to DC and using the CHAdeMO port. So the discussion here has been really valuable albeit perhaps not yet "market ready".

Are you suggesting I could replace the 3.3kW AC input with a unit of higher capacity e.g. 15kW? I do agree that would be the best solution, if it is possible. I had thought that integrating the replacement into the car's soft-/firmware would be difficult, and have assumed that it is not sufficiently "plug & play" to do without lots of fiddling. I do wonder how much interfacing is actually required since the user-accessible control is only to limit max.AC current to 8Amp, and information received limited the predict time remaining for AC charging - both of which I would do without in exchange for faster AC charging.

How easy would the replacement be for our 2018 Prius PHV to increase AC charging rate e.g. to 15kW?

[celeron55]

In my mind as an EV converter, it doesn't make a huge difference whether you make a separate unit or whether you permanently install. The separate unit might be way easier to integrate given you can't modify the car's firmware and probably don't have BMS info and wakeup/shutdown commands or lines easily available for the HV system.

Altough if you are reverse engineering minded, all that should be available at the existing on board charger and could be a non-issue.

Anyway, all you really need to do in order to attach an OBC via Chademo is to add a power output diode with cooling (100A diode will generate about 100W of heat) and the Chademo plug. The rest is signalling.

Of course when adding this to an OEM OBC you need to make sure its startup sequence isn't incompatible with Chademo's startup sequence. Also note that many OBCs don't have almost any output capacitance and in that case you might not need to add a diode.

[Laugh2]

I've found a unit, which does exactly what I'd/we'd like. It basically converts any standard AC source to a DC output of your choice at 22kW or more, including to CHAdeMO. It's even been around since 2017 or earlier:
https://www.designwerk.com/mobile-charger-22-500/
https://www.pveurope.eu/e-mobility/mobi ... dependence
The prices are very solid, though. In 2019 the smallest, 22kW unit (model MDC22) cost EUR 14,900 and then another approx. EUR 2,000 for the cables. These prices may well exclude it from the mass market:
https://www.speakev.com/attachments/pre ... df.127122/
Still, it's great to know that such items are finding their way onto the market.

Update
Designwerk responded quickly to my contact. The price for the base unit has dropped to EUR 12,600 for the MDC 22-500 (22kW) plus approx. EUR 1,500 for cables, etc. Combined with inflation makes for a significant reduction. However, they also said that they do not have a Type 2 AC cable , only normal CEE 3-phase connections and only deliver inside Europe.

[Zieg]

Can't you configure a tesla gen3 (18kw) charger to act as a chademo evse? Then you'd just need an arduino to talk to the type2 evse and relay the power limit (if the charger can't read it directly, not sure). I'm not sure if it's really that simple, but it seemed like it when I briefly looked into it.

Of course you also need the male chademo plug, which might be tricky to find...

[Laugh2]

Can't you configure a tesla gen3 (18kw) charger to act as a chademo evse? Then you'd just need an arduino to talk to the type2 evse and relay the power limit (if the charger can't read it directly, not sure). I'm not sure if it's really that simple, but it seemed like it when I briefly looked into it.

Of course you also need the male chademo plug, which might be tricky to find...

Thank you for the idea. Sounds interesting, but is well beyond my experience to comment on or implement, unfortunately.