[WIP] L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
Amazing build quality..
The tm3 modules start off at 8cm high, apart from the positive connection. what is the final height of your battery box? I had been considering trying to get one below the prop of my e39 but I'm thinking its not going to be a runner.
The tm3 modules start off at 8cm high, apart from the positive connection. what is the final height of your battery box? I had been considering trying to get one below the prop of my e39 but I'm thinking its not going to be a runner.
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
Overall depth of the battery box is 224mm. That allows for the plastics below, between, and on top of the modules to keep them isolated. Approx half that for a single module depth, but four side by side would be too wide? And the depth still too much below the prop I'd think
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
ah ok, I should have been paying more attention.
I wasnt thinking of 2 modules in a box.
So for 1, maybe 110-120mm .. that might be doable.
I wasnt thinking of 2 modules in a box.
So for 1, maybe 110-120mm .. that might be doable.
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
Battery Boxes:
Final modifications to the battery box support frame to allow the rear prop shaft to route down between the two battery boxes and to add stops for the U-bolts to prevent any lateral or longitudinal movement
And yet another trial fit
Final modifications to the battery box support frame to allow the rear prop shaft to route down between the two battery boxes and to add stops for the U-bolts to prevent any lateral or longitudinal movement
And yet another trial fit
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
DC-DC & Charging:
Recent focus has been following along with Damien's trojan work updating the Zombieverter GS450H module and the TM3 PCS. I still have some troubleshooting to do to get the transmission turning with my setup, but good milestones to get DC-DC running and the first 1P AC charge into the batteries
Recent focus has been following along with Damien's trojan work updating the Zombieverter GS450H module and the TM3 PCS. I still have some troubleshooting to do to get the transmission turning with my setup, but good milestones to get DC-DC running and the first 1P AC charge into the batteries
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
Transfer Case:
Getting ready to test spin some wheels, so drive and transfer case are back in place. Fitting the new drive shaft and modified front prop shaft. Ideally I'd prefer closer alignment as discussed earlier, but this will get things rolling for now and will see how early testing goes.
Getting ready to test spin some wheels, so drive and transfer case are back in place. Fitting the new drive shaft and modified front prop shaft. Ideally I'd prefer closer alignment as discussed earlier, but this will get things rolling for now and will see how early testing goes.
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
Gear Linkage:
The small jobs do take up some time! The original gear lever works by push-pull cable which works well with the GS450H gear linkage. Measuring the throw for both the RR and the GS conveniently showed that the RR was exactly half that of the GS for each gear position, so simply halving the length of the GS gear linkage arm means the RR gear lever works perfectly. Just had to turn the GS linkage arm upside down to get the order correct.
The GS gear linkage rod is 10mm, and when straightened works well with a 10mm Stauff hydraulic hose clamp as a sliding guide
The small jobs do take up some time! The original gear lever works by push-pull cable which works well with the GS450H gear linkage. Measuring the throw for both the RR and the GS conveniently showed that the RR was exactly half that of the GS for each gear position, so simply halving the length of the GS gear linkage arm means the RR gear lever works perfectly. Just had to turn the GS linkage arm upside down to get the order correct.
The GS gear linkage rod is 10mm, and when straightened works well with a 10mm Stauff hydraulic hose clamp as a sliding guide
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
Sidetracking!
Future driveline upgrade for the RR or the start of a new project!!! 2020 TM3 RDU
Future driveline upgrade for the RR or the start of a new project!!! 2020 TM3 RDU
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
VCU Testing:
Progress came to a halt for many months while I worked through a number of issues that prevented the GS450H transmission and inverter running with the Zombieverter VCU (more details can be seen over in the Zombieverter VCU support thread and a huge thank you to Damien, Johu, Crasbe and others for all their help). The system would run using the older GS450H VCU from EVBMW, which incorrectly steered the investigation away from the transmission and inverter leading down a few rabbit holes.
Later Damien took the inverter and tested on his E39 conversion and the real issue was discovered. The Zombieverter uses more of the data returned from the inverter on the SPI comms lines than the older VCU and it turned out the data was not being sent back correctly. Further investigation found there was corrosion on the comms PCB which was causing cross talk on the comms lines.
In the process of investigating the issues, I ended up getting a second Zombie VCU and another inverter trying to rule out the source of the issues, and replaced the corroded PCB in the first inverter...so looking like the start of a another conversion
Final troubleshooting lead to a couple of key takeaways for the next project:
Finally a working bench test setup using four 12V batteries in series for HV. Hopefully back to making progress now
Progress came to a halt for many months while I worked through a number of issues that prevented the GS450H transmission and inverter running with the Zombieverter VCU (more details can be seen over in the Zombieverter VCU support thread and a huge thank you to Damien, Johu, Crasbe and others for all their help). The system would run using the older GS450H VCU from EVBMW, which incorrectly steered the investigation away from the transmission and inverter leading down a few rabbit holes.
Later Damien took the inverter and tested on his E39 conversion and the real issue was discovered. The Zombieverter uses more of the data returned from the inverter on the SPI comms lines than the older VCU and it turned out the data was not being sent back correctly. Further investigation found there was corrosion on the comms PCB which was causing cross talk on the comms lines.
In the process of investigating the issues, I ended up getting a second Zombie VCU and another inverter trying to rule out the source of the issues, and replaced the corroded PCB in the first inverter...so looking like the start of a another conversion
Final troubleshooting lead to a couple of key takeaways for the next project:
- Grounds - despite thinking I had good routing for circuit and hardware case grounds, I ended up having to increase some of the ground wire sizes and got best results when I routed all ground wires direct to the 12V battery negative terminal
- 12V system voltage - needs some more testing, but it appears the GS450H inverter needs a certain voltage on the LV side in order to change InvStat from 'off' to 'on', which can throw you off when using the web interface during testing. The system can still run, but some data is not read when InvStat is 'off' such as the speed data from the inverter
- 12V system amps - early testing with the GS450H VCU was run with a cheap bench top PSU, but this struggled after scaling up the system with the Zombie and adding in the HV contactors. This wasn't apparent for a while which caused some more head scratching. A properly charged car battery does the job!
Finally a working bench test setup using four 12V batteries in series for HV. Hopefully back to making progress now
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
Engine bay cradle frame:
Continuing down the path of a reversible conversion with everything bolting into existing mounting points, an engine bay cradle will allow a simple way to support things like the brake vacuum pump, vacuum reservoir, cabin heater, and others to follow! This has been designed to mount on the existing engine and sub-frame mounts and will straddle the GS450H transmission assembly which mounts on its own anti-vibration mounts.
It will also provide mounting points for the HVJB using another set of anti-vibration mounts as the HVJB will also house the Tesla Model 3 PCS internally, and some VCU's externally
Continuing down the path of a reversible conversion with everything bolting into existing mounting points, an engine bay cradle will allow a simple way to support things like the brake vacuum pump, vacuum reservoir, cabin heater, and others to follow! This has been designed to mount on the existing engine and sub-frame mounts and will straddle the GS450H transmission assembly which mounts on its own anti-vibration mounts.
It will also provide mounting points for the HVJB using another set of anti-vibration mounts as the HVJB will also house the Tesla Model 3 PCS internally, and some VCU's externally
- Bratitude
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
This!
chassis grounds I find are never enough for proper shielding.
build up strange capacitance through some body panels, newer vehicles are bad for this (in a modification sense)
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
- robertwa
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
Fantastic build, well done. It's given me lots of ideas. Looking to hearing about your first test drive!
Building: 1964 International Scout 80. LS600H transmission with ZombieVerter, B250e battery pack
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
PCS DC-DC/Drive Mode/Charge Mode:
Next up is a look at Damien's latest PCS firmware and some testing of the new ramp up/down charging controls and the new drive mode. This time the HV Tesla battery pack is connected to the HVJB mock up and the contactors are controlled by the Zombie VCU (using the HV Request function). Offered a chance to connect up the main elements of the EV conversion setup for a larger bench test
Charging with a single phase Type 2 charger. PCS correctly determines power source, the plug and cable limits, and charge current does indeed ramp up/down at the start/end of charge enable
Changing over to drive mode powers up the DC-DC after the new pre-charge delay time setting, so all is working as expected
Next up is a look at Damien's latest PCS firmware and some testing of the new ramp up/down charging controls and the new drive mode. This time the HV Tesla battery pack is connected to the HVJB mock up and the contactors are controlled by the Zombie VCU (using the HV Request function). Offered a chance to connect up the main elements of the EV conversion setup for a larger bench test
Charging with a single phase Type 2 charger. PCS correctly determines power source, the plug and cable limits, and charge current does indeed ramp up/down at the start/end of charge enable
Changing over to drive mode powers up the DC-DC after the new pre-charge delay time setting, so all is working as expected
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
Update:
It's been a while since the last update, but there have been a number of odds and ends rumbling along in the background. Still waiting for the repaired motor to transfer case drive shaft so I can spin the wheels for the first time, but the Zombieverter and wiring looms have been transferred over to the cars engine bay fuse box and all controls are now set up and working as needed.
Mock up for the A/C hoses and got a new set of flexible braided lines installed to work with the Mitsubishi A/C compressor
The RR's hall brake sensor wasn't working with the VCU so did some testing reading the ABS module CAN bus and activating 12V when pedal pressed. This worked but for for simplicity I installed a standard brake switch once I got up under the dash
Spent way too much time looking at locations for the BMW coolant pump, finally found its home once the radiator detail was sorted
Cabin heater expansion bottle mounted to work with the Mitsubishi heater
And finally cleaned up the front axles and refit them along with the brakes
It's been a while since the last update, but there have been a number of odds and ends rumbling along in the background. Still waiting for the repaired motor to transfer case drive shaft so I can spin the wheels for the first time, but the Zombieverter and wiring looms have been transferred over to the cars engine bay fuse box and all controls are now set up and working as needed.
Mock up for the A/C hoses and got a new set of flexible braided lines installed to work with the Mitsubishi A/C compressor
The RR's hall brake sensor wasn't working with the VCU so did some testing reading the ABS module CAN bus and activating 12V when pedal pressed. This worked but for for simplicity I installed a standard brake switch once I got up under the dash
Spent way too much time looking at locations for the BMW coolant pump, finally found its home once the radiator detail was sorted
Cabin heater expansion bottle mounted to work with the Mitsubishi heater
And finally cleaned up the front axles and refit them along with the brakes
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
HVJB:
With the charging and DC-DC working on the bench, spent some time packaging and tidying the HVJB where the PCS will be housed. Toying with the idea of housing the Orion 2 BMS unit here too
With the charging and DC-DC working on the bench, spent some time packaging and tidying the HVJB where the PCS will be housed. Toying with the idea of housing the Orion 2 BMS unit here too
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
BMS:
One thing I've been putting off for too long is the Orion 2 BMS work!!! The plan and the parts have been sitting waiting, partially holding out for a potential breakthrough in using Tesla's own BMS, but mostly because of those small aluminium wires!
Finally decided to call in someone who knows their soldering and he did a top job getting all the cell taps in place
Two modules per battery box, so each has its own connector to aid fitting and removing. These will connect to a TE Connectivity Leavyseal connector for each battery box
One thing I've been putting off for too long is the Orion 2 BMS work!!! The plan and the parts have been sitting waiting, partially holding out for a potential breakthrough in using Tesla's own BMS, but mostly because of those small aluminium wires!
Finally decided to call in someone who knows their soldering and he did a top job getting all the cell taps in place
Two modules per battery box, so each has its own connector to aid fitting and removing. These will connect to a TE Connectivity Leavyseal connector for each battery box
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
BMS:
Crimping and soldering and soldering and crimping So many BMS wires....envious of anyone with a two wire BMS set up now!
A TE 62-way per battery box, two battery boxes. This will be the external connector to the BMS and for contactor control wires. Inside there are two separate 26-way connectors, one per battery module
Wanted to run the BMS tap wires in closed conduit rather than the open conduit that came with the BMS, and this allowed me to have a single run per battery box
Crimping and soldering and soldering and crimping So many BMS wires....envious of anyone with a two wire BMS set up now!
A TE 62-way per battery box, two battery boxes. This will be the external connector to the BMS and for contactor control wires. Inside there are two separate 26-way connectors, one per battery module
Wanted to run the BMS tap wires in closed conduit rather than the open conduit that came with the BMS, and this allowed me to have a single run per battery box
- PatrcioEV-ATX
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
I pride myself in tidiness but you're at another level entirely. That BMS wiring is a pain! Yours looks fantastic. My Tesla batteries came from a B250e:
https://www.instagram.com/p/ClcVJNGOxUW ... _copy_link
https://www.instagram.com/p/ClcVJNGOxUW ... _copy_link
1998 Ford ZX2 - DC EV conversion(sold) http://evalbum.com/2093
2012 Nissan Leaf (sold)
2016 Mercedes B250e (sold)
2023 Volvo C40
Current: 1964 Rambler Classic 660 w/ GS450h set up. 36kwh Tesla batteries from B250e.
https://www.instagram.com/rambler_660e/
2012 Nissan Leaf (sold)
2016 Mercedes B250e (sold)
2023 Volvo C40
Current: 1964 Rambler Classic 660 w/ GS450h set up. 36kwh Tesla batteries from B250e.
https://www.instagram.com/rambler_660e/
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
I’m following because I’ve decide to have a go at planning an ev conversion with a Discovery 4. I want to keep the terrain response, and all the good stuff that happens.
Opt 1: replace engine and transmission, and all wiring, programme VCU from scratch
Opt 2: replace engine. Keep transmission. And …
Opt 1: replace engine and transmission, and all wiring, programme VCU from scratch
Opt 2: replace engine. Keep transmission. And …
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
I have a backlog of updates to write up here shortly.RangeRoveePete wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2023 10:01 pm I’m following because I’ve decide to have a go at planning an ev conversion with a Discovery 4. I want to keep the terrain response, and all the good stuff that happens.
Opt 1: replace engine and transmission, and all wiring, programme VCU from scratch
Opt 2: replace engine. Keep transmission. And …
Will look forward to hearing more about your project. Is it SDV6 with 8 speed auto? Do you know if the transfer box is Magna DD295 like the Range Rover? I'd check some projects based on a transverse Tesla Model 3 RDU for some good ideas!!!
If the D4 is currently on the road, critical you capture lots of CAN logs and ideally do some reverse engineering before you start any conversion. There is a lot going on with transmission and transfer case on the CAN bus and I know that will cause me some fun before I'm finished too
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
Brakes:
To get ready for the first drive it was time to go back and finish off some open tasks...brakes seemed like an important one! Had another type of brake vacuum sensor sitting around so tested some options looking for the cleanest solution
Glued the vacuum sensor into a typical VAG non-return valve which simplified the original selection of hoses and clamps. Not ideal for replacement in the future but the non-returns are cheap to get. Will protect the terminals from the elements in the final setup
Fits neatly beside the motor and looks to work well when plumbed in. Job done!
To get ready for the first drive it was time to go back and finish off some open tasks...brakes seemed like an important one! Had another type of brake vacuum sensor sitting around so tested some options looking for the cleanest solution
Glued the vacuum sensor into a typical VAG non-return valve which simplified the original selection of hoses and clamps. Not ideal for replacement in the future but the non-returns are cheap to get. Will protect the terminals from the elements in the final setup
Fits neatly beside the motor and looks to work well when plumbed in. Job done!
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
Cooling System:
Settling on two coolant loops to cover both drive and charge modes. The RR has a neat auxiliary radiator tucked in front of the drives side front wheel so got a second one of the same radiators and two 8" pull fans , a set for each loop. Originally fit the BMW coolant pump but veering towards using two smaller units to start and see how they perform. They need a bit of a clean and tidy!
Settling on two coolant loops to cover both drive and charge modes. The RR has a neat auxiliary radiator tucked in front of the drives side front wheel so got a second one of the same radiators and two 8" pull fans , a set for each loop. Originally fit the BMW coolant pump but veering towards using two smaller units to start and see how they perform. They need a bit of a clean and tidy!
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
iPDM56 Controller:
Love this unit. Got one of Celeron55's iPDM56 units for a host of I/O options and CAN buses. This is based on an Arduino Uno which makes it more suitable for my programming ability! The Zombie VCU programming is a bit more involved so this allows me to develop and test the logic and I/O for all the additional options I need.
There are things like dash light and gauge control, monitoring ABS brake on/off CAN signals to control the gear lever lock solenoid, A/C and cabin heating controls, etc that I'll be running on the iPDM for now.
Once up and running with no bugs, some of the code could be ported over to the Zombie and I hope to learn a bit more about how to do that as I go
Love this unit. Got one of Celeron55's iPDM56 units for a host of I/O options and CAN buses. This is based on an Arduino Uno which makes it more suitable for my programming ability! The Zombie VCU programming is a bit more involved so this allows me to develop and test the logic and I/O for all the additional options I need.
There are things like dash light and gauge control, monitoring ABS brake on/off CAN signals to control the gear lever lock solenoid, A/C and cabin heating controls, etc that I'll be running on the iPDM for now.
Once up and running with no bugs, some of the code could be ported over to the Zombie and I hope to learn a bit more about how to do that as I go
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Re: L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale
Battery Boxes:
Time to get the battery boxes finished up too. Adding a junction box to each battery box for access to contactors and pre-charge resistor and to mount the various connectors.
Every time I sit and look at the layout it changes... but getting there now. There are some benefits to taking so long to get through a project Left JB in the image below is the negative most terminal, positive on the right. Originally the plan was to hard wire the HV cables to the JB's but practically this wasn't the best approach. Now I have a more convenient plugged setup (plugs and sockets arriving this week). This will give a manual disconnect option and aid the fitting and removal of the battery boxes (because I'm sure they'll be in and out many times during testing and bug fixing which I think will justify the extra cost!). Ultimately though, this is much safer
Magic up some busbars
The Tesla Model 3 battery terminal post nicely come in through the underside of the JB's so the fuses mount directly
Time to get the battery boxes finished up too. Adding a junction box to each battery box for access to contactors and pre-charge resistor and to mount the various connectors.
Every time I sit and look at the layout it changes... but getting there now. There are some benefits to taking so long to get through a project Left JB in the image below is the negative most terminal, positive on the right. Originally the plan was to hard wire the HV cables to the JB's but practically this wasn't the best approach. Now I have a more convenient plugged setup (plugs and sockets arriving this week). This will give a manual disconnect option and aid the fitting and removal of the battery boxes (because I'm sure they'll be in and out many times during testing and bug fixing which I think will justify the extra cost!). Ultimately though, this is much safer
Magic up some busbars
The Tesla Model 3 battery terminal post nicely come in through the underside of the JB's so the fuses mount directly