BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Development and discussion of fast charging systems eg Chademo , CCS etc
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Zapatero
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by Zapatero »

I think I'll let the CCS unit handle the CP and PP. I just need a charger interlock signal for my Orion BMS, so as soon as a plug is detected i need a bit turn from 0 to 1 or similar.

0x272 CCS contactor state and charge flap open/close status
0x337 Inlet lock status

Can someone tell me where i can see in detail which exact message i could use?
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by larsrengersen »

I'd look at CAN message 0x3B4 from the LIM and within that at the PP_Status.
0x01 for plug inserted
PP_status.png
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by Zapatero »

Wow, that was quick :)
So this will be 0x00 when no plug is inserted and 0x01 if Type2 or CCS plug is inserted, even if no charging occurs.

Just want to prevent ripping that cable out of the station :x
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by Zapatero »

More questions: is the 1B-15 a pull down or pull up output? Maybe anyone tested this?

1B-15 CHARGE_E Goes to KLE. Guessing this is charge enable or drive interlock signal?
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by asavage »

Zapatero wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:21 am If I decide to switch CC and CP signal with a relay, what would be the indicator for the relay to know if it's open or closed. Which signal can i use to recognize if a Type2 or CCS plug is plugged in?
I hadn't given this a lot of thought. My situation is that I have an old "OEM" EV that has no DCFC, and I'm adding it. I'm thinking that I'll use a bistable relay ("latching" relay) and a SPDP switch. The relay will remain in whatever position it is set, without drawing power.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/signal-relays/7181963
image.png
For the relatively infrequent times I need to DCFC, I will flip that switch to "CCS", disconnecting CP & PP from the OEM onboard charger and connecting them to the BMW i3 LIM. I don't think that I need to automate beyond that . . . but if I could cover all the situations with automation, that would be more clever.

[Hmmm. With the CP/PP connected to my OBC, my EV has drive-away protection. With them connected to the LIM . . . perhaps not. I have not thought his through.]

I do like the idea of code querying the LIM to determine if we're plugged in, then further using code to decide that AC is present, then switching the CP & PP to the AC onboard charger, but I can see some difficulties that make using a hardware solution (switch + bistable relay) attractive.

For example, once the LIM has told you that you're plugged in and there's AC present, you take the CP/PP lines away from the LIM and give it to your OBC, and tell the OBC/BMS to do its thing and initiate charging. How/when do you return the CP/PP to the LIM? When the nozzle's unplugged? When the BMS cuts the OBC? I'm foggy on the multiple scenarios that could occur.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by Zapatero »

I'll test what the 1B-15 does, i hope it's a pull up output that delivers 12v once plugged in. With that you could easily simulate to your OBD that the car is plugged in by attaching a pwm generator to a relay. In my case it'll be a direct charge interlock for the Orion BMS on charge power, if it's +12v
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

Zapatero wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 6:21 am If I decide to switch CC and CP signal with a relay, what would be the indicator for the relay to know if it's open or closed. Which signal can i use to recognize if a Type2 or CCS plug is plugged in?
I actually do this for my Nissan Leaf. I.e. switching CP/PP between LIM and the stock charger.

Default is LIM. If LIM tells me (via the message Lars mentioned) that there's a plug detected and it's a AC plug, I switch to the stock charger. As soon as the stock charger tells me there's no cable connected, I switch back.

https://github.com/cschleifenbaum/qleaf ... er.cpp#L43

I actually use four relays. Triggered by the same signal: CP, PP and a pair for the locking actuator.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by asavage »

cristoph, can you describe how your Leaf is inhibited from drive-away, when the LIM has the CP/PP?
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

asavage wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 5:07 pm cristoph, can you describe how your Leaf is inhibited from drive-away, when the LIM has the CP/PP?
In case of CCS I simulate a CHAdeMO charge. In case of AC it will switch to the onboard stock charger immediately. So in both cases you won't be able to drive away.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by Sidemips »

"New player has entered the game"

Hi Guys, I am pleased to share with you the hardware I received:
Two ISO15118 compatible LIMs, one CCS2 socket from a BMW MINI-E, and some of the needed connectors.
My project would be to get it working at first with Mitsubishi Outlander BMS slaves (80S1P) and SimpBMS or EVS-BMS, then go to 220S1P for a 920V setup and finally ramp up to 220S2P, 220S3P, 220S4P for a 460KW CSS capable trailer mounted ESS.
1669817907733.jpg
The pros of using a Combo socket from a BMW MINI-E is definately LIM compatibiliy but also cable length !
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1669817907750.jpg
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by Sidemips »

Here some details on the Mini-e charging socket:
the Charge port lock is mounted on the side making the whole thing quite compact.
1669817888933.jpg
Same Kuster Lock as on the i3, and I guess same connector for Inlet temperature... ;)
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1669817888858.jpg
1669817888843.jpg
1669817888825.jpg
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by tom91 »

Sidemips wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:50 pm "New player has entered the game"
My project would be to get it working at first with Mitsubishi Outlander BMS slaves (80S1P) and SimpBMS or EVS-BMS
This is very easy, I have a canbridge underdevelopment that will work for this. Already one out in the field with a customer.

The higher voltages however, due to the way the DC fast charge bus sensing works feels like this will be the hurdle.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by larsrengersen »

tom91 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:06 pm The higher voltages however, due to the way the DC fast charge bus sensing works feels like this will be the hurdle.
The measuring range of the Voltage sense board is determined by two factors:
1) the supply voltage
2) the input range of the current sensing basic isolated amplifier
Factor one should be good with our board since our supply voltage is 12V which exceeds the minimum of about 7,6V to produce the 16mA current around 1000V.
However factor two is going to be tight as well as isolation barriers / voltage ratings of components used.
For testing we went up to 1047V and did get 16 mA but it might not be accurate and is not recommended.
Voltage sense board tested at 1047V.jpeg
In the end it was a kit intended to use as a replacement of what the KLE does (and thus work in a 96s setting).
But you can of course (re)design a voltage sense board solving the remaining challenges.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by asavage »

larsrengersen wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:09 pm In the end it was a kit intended to use as a replacement of what the KLE does (and thus work in a 96s setting).
According to the Wiki, the last five year's worth of BMW LIM production have the capacity to work with 1000vdc.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by larsrengersen »

asavage wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:41 pm According to the Wiki, the last five year's worth of BMW LIM production have the capacity to work with 1000vdc.
What is the rationale behind that conclusion?
Updated CAN structure? Or also updated hardware design (ao in the KLE but also voltage ratings of (charging)connectors.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by tom91 »

asavage wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:41 pm the last five year's worth of BMW LIM production have the capacity to work with 1000vdc.
Yes but where that info come from, no HV inside the LIM so the lim only has parameters that might have moved and not actual hardware changes.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by asavage »

I agree: while the LIM's firmware can reportedly handle the ma range that indicates up to 1000vdc, are there actually any installations where this is done (ie a KLE that is measuring <=1000vdc and sending the equivalent signal to the LIM)? I don't know.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by Sidemips »

Talking about the Wiki, who is reponsible for updates ?
The advertised connector terminals for the Chargeport lock are wrong, it's not MQS but MCON 1.2 (1.2 SealStar MA Connector series from Hirschmann)
below more details about the original connector for the Chargeport lock from KRÜGER:
1669817888858.jpg
Hirschmann part number:
male 805-122-541 (4 way connector)
female 872-617-541 (4 way connector)

BMW part number:
male 12527549033
female 18302411427

using the Hirschmann ref will also help you to find really cheap connectors sets with terminals and seals ;)
Screenshot 2022-11-30 193142.png
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by crasbe »

Sidemips wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:28 pm Talking about the Wiki, who is reponsible for updates ?
Everyone. Feel free to edit the page :)
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by asavage »

Sidemips wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:28 pm Talking about the Wiki, who is reponsible for updates ?
We all are. Feel free to jump in and edit away.

[later, 01Dec2022]
I've added the info "Hirschmann 805122541" for the Charge Port Lock connector shell to the wiki.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by Zapatero »

larsrengersen wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:09 pm [.....]
In the end it was a kit intended to use as a replacement of what the KLE does (and thus work in a 96s setting).
But you can of course (re)design a voltage sense board solving the remaining challenges.
I'm only using it with 84 cells, do i have to obey anything when using the voltage sensing board? Thanks
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by larsrengersen »

84 will work fine, also in terms of minimum voltage for CCS at low SOC.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by muehlpower »

1000V.png
I think the information that newer LIMs can handle up to 1000V comes from me. I was fed DBC files that were different. I suspect that a LIM must be coded differently in order to be able to process the higher voltage. A look at the hardware leads me to believe that the Voltage Sensing input cannot handle more than 5V. The measuring device is probably scaled differently for the corresponding vehicles, if they exist. The green messages are the familiar ones, just as they are found on newer LIMs. To have a 1000V LIM in front of you, the messages would have to match the blue ones.
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by bitterandreal »

I would not expect the LIM to actually support charging up to 1000V.
DIN 70121 was limited to 500V and at some point they moved to ISO 15118 which supports 1000V.
But only because the protocol supports it the LIM does not have to...
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Re: BMW i3 CCS/charge port controller

Post by christoph »

Meh, my LIM stopped locking the charging port when I plug in 😕 I measured the lock, it’s 1 kΩ unlocked, 11 kΩ locked as it should be.

I checked the connection cable: fine. Fun fact: when locking manually, it does unlock by itself when done with CCS charging. So it should not be any cabling.

What could be wrong? Before it was locking regardless the plug being AC or CCS. Now it doesn't do anything.


Problem solved by sending a OBD reset:
https://github.com/cschleifenbaum/Stm32 ... 901d1e09e6
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