[DRIVING] - Z3(00)

[bobby_come_lately]

[arber333]

RoT for pump installation is to fit it immediately behind the radiator at the lowest point in the system. This allows the pump to always draw water.

[bobby_come_lately]

RoT for pump installation is to fit it immediately behind the radiator at the lowest point in the system. This allows the pump to always draw water.

Agree that would be the ideal. Not sure what behaviour would be with the reservoir - though if I get the sealed lid someone recommended on the YT comments that should be fine. It might not fit that easily, so my alternative might be to just throw a smaller pump on the outlet of the rad, ensuring the top pump is always fed and forcing water through the charger.

I'll fix it one way or another this week. Though really need to crack on with MOT prep.

[bobby_come_lately]

Borked it. Car is dead. Seems to be some sort of motor failure. Perhaps a bearing but won't know until I get it towed to the garage and stripped down.

Just as I'd got it performing well too. Going to take it off the road for a few months and do all the outstanding work.

[johu]

Over revved it?

[Zapatero]

Over revved it?

been there, done that... propably the only way to actually kill a motor.

[bobby_come_lately]

No - didn't get up to high revs. Wondering if the motor and gearbox weren't well enough aligned putting stress on the bearings. But it was pretty quiet until it died - would expect more noise if that were the case.

Will find out when I pull it apart. Replacing bearing/motor not the end of the world. But be a PITA if I have to remake the adaptor plate. Might get one laser cut if so. Or maybe have an aluminium one machined...

[seanyt]

Sorry to hear it needs to be revised. I've been following your videos on YouTube
and looking forward to your rear outlander motor progress.

I also have a complete rear outlander motor and stock inverter sitting in my project car. but its a long way from running right now.

[bobby_come_lately]

Cheers. Yeah, it's a pain. But one day it will be the car I want. Since I now have a spare, running, car, may as well pull it off the road and do it all properly. Plenty of content for YouTube anyway...

[Ctwidle]

Just when things looked to be going so well!
If indeed the problem is down to a bearing failure I have possibly preempted such a problem. I plan on using the modified face plate from the gearbox instead of building a spacer. There will be a steel plate between it and my VW gearbox.
If it proves to have been a been said failure then the cross hatched section in the pic will be removed and a suitable sealed bearing sourced to replace the original which had an open race which would have been lubricated via the gearbox.
The outer diameter of the connector would need to be machined to the ID of the new bearing. The original was a KOYO 6007C3 62*35*14.
Fingers crossed you find the cause.
Chris

[bobby_come_lately]

Wow that's an interesting idea. I like it (if I understand it - I think I do!)

Latest video here though I don't shed too much light, other than 'it's knackered'.

[Pete9008]

That's a pain, hope you get it sorted.

Some bearings use a nylon cage to hold the bearings in position, if it's one of those then it wouldn't take much heat to melt the cage and it's surprising how much heat even a little bit of misalignment can produce. A damaged cage would allow the balls to bind which might give the locking and freeing up effect you are seeing? Seem to remember the Ampera had problems with this even on factory assembled and aligned motors.

[bobby_come_lately]

That would be a nice easy fix. Fingers crossed! But I suspect it might be more serious. We shall see.

[Ev8]

I say pull the motor apart, it’s more than likely not useable anyway but an autopsy will be useful information going forward, just have a good sweep and hoover of the areas you are working in, lay a clean sheet down on the bench and if you pull it apart and have a usable rotor wrap it in masking tape so any stray iron fillings can be easily removed later.

[bobby_come_lately]

Pulled it apart today - enough to find the bearings were toast. I think I know what went wrong now. Longitudinal load on the motor shaft (my fault - coupler fractionally too long) put stress on bearings and they overheated and melted the plastic. Might be fixable but I don't know how much damage was done to the rotor/windings in the process. I also destroyed the resolver rotor in the disassembly.

Video out Monday showing it all.

Good news is that if I'm right, I can put the new motor in with minimal tweaks.

[Pete9008]

Shame the resolvers damaged otherwise it might just have been a new set of bearings. Good to have peace of mind for fitting the replacement though.

Any tips for getting one apart without damage to the resolver rotor?

[bobby_come_lately]

I'm not convinced actually that it wasn't already damaged. But basically, undo all the bolts before you start to tap the backplate off with a soft-faced hammer. There's one that retains the resolver rotor on the end of the shaft and if you take that off it should come away in one piece.

I might yet be able to fix it. Just had very little time today.

[royhen99]

Did both bearings fail or just the one at the output shaft end? Maybe worth adding a bearing in the adaptor plate if you get one CNC milled.

[bobby_come_lately]

Not sure yet as I've not withdrawn the rotor. If I get it fixed, I'll get both replaced though.

If I added an extra one it would probably be a thrust bearing to ensure this doesn't happen again. If I'm right about the cause though, no need to get one CNCd.

[whereswally606]

Take some photos of the resolver. Lets see how broke it is. Other stuff sounds promising Tom.
Got a hot air gun if you fancy trying to rebuild it.

[Ctwidle]

BIG thank you to Bobby-come-lately for making mistakes before I have had chance to!
I have had my outlander motor spinning in open loop and progressed to having the correct graphs for FOC without HV. Unfortunately I have only managed a slight kick and a bright bulb from a selection of FOC iterations, pinswaps etc. today’s plan was to swap a pair of phase connections at the motor. Mr butterfingers dropped a bolt into the motor. Neither my cheap borescope nor magnets on a stick were able to locate it so it was time to watch Tom’s YouTube (Inside my broken EV motor) disassembly video after his bearing failure. So, a couple of points for the next person who needs to do this:
Remove the resolver cover (5 screws),
Remove two plugs and one earth (the temp sensor plug pulls down, not up),
Witness mark the resolver and remove just the 3 resolver screws NOT the three outside ones. You can now slide resolver out and access the Circlip. No need to remove the resolver core from the shaft,
Remove the 10 outer cover bolts. When you prize the cover off it should bring the bearing with it. If you have taken the three outside screws out you will have to pull the bearing off the shaft anyway to reattach the bearing back plate.
Replacement, as they say....
The resolver screws were loctited.
Thanks again Tom,
Now back to what I was doing....

[bobby_come_lately]

Ha! Glad to be of service.

[bobby_come_lately]

Working on the cosmetics (at last). Lots of progress on the body swap. Headlights half fitted. Now designing the rear end layout.

[Bratitude]

hey bobby, these cad files might be useful to you. I measured the outlander rear motor, and received (of unknow accuracy) some of the bolt pattern measurements for a bmw gearbox. https://github.com/bratindustries/adapter-plates

[bobby_come_lately]

Oh amazing! Thank you.