Outlander rear motor and inverter

Mitsubishi hybrid drive unit hacking
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bobby_come_lately
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by bobby_come_lately »

I'm trying to do a pinout for the wiki - and get ready to hook up my rear motor in place of the front one. Does anyone have a full pinout including the temperature sensor connections figured out yet?

Based on my little sketch below, am I right in thinking that 1-2 are EXC, 3-4 are SIN and 5-6 are COS?
pinout.png
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Zapatero
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by Zapatero »

That's a great idea. I also would like to know how to activate the parking function of the gearbox. Did anyone use this so far?
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aot93
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by aot93 »

Here are my notes for the rear inverter / motor, I've not worked out which resolver wire is which as it's not needed to know with the OEM inverter.

Also the factory wiring diagram, hope it helps.
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bobby_come_lately
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Thanks for that. I saw the official pinout but that threw me as it has 14 pins and Tom's one only has 12?
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Zapatero
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by Zapatero »

Zapatero wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 7:04 pm That's a great idea. I also would like to know how to activate the parking function of the gearbox. Did anyone use this so far?
Just realized that the rear drive unit probably doesn't have that feature, rather only the front unit.
LRBen
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by LRBen »

Zapatero wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:14 pm
Zapatero wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 7:04 pm That's a great idea. I also would like to know how to activate the parking function of the gearbox. Did anyone use this so far?
Just realized that the rear drive unit probably doesn't have that feature, rather only the front unit.
I stripped a rear differential and there is no brake mechanism of any kind in there.
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bobby_come_lately
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by bobby_come_lately »

I've added what I think is the correct pinout to the wiki based on the REMCU doc that @aot93 supplied (thank you). Appreciate if someone could check it: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Mitsubish ... Drive_Unit

Understand the 14 pin/12 pin thing now having looked more closely at the connector (2 pins unused). Doh.
Ctwidle
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by Ctwidle »

Scotts, Mouse and now bobby_come_lately (‘Upgrading the motor in my DIY EV: Part 3’ recently published on Youtube) have shared their systems for coupling and connecting their Y61 motors to various gearboxes now I’m adding mine:
As I will not be using the native diff, due to difficulties acquiring suitable drive shafts, but using the original beetle gearbox, I need a motor spline, a gearbox spline, an adaptor plate and a spacer. The diff can provide the first and fourth. I used a worn out wood cutting bandsaw blade to remove excess material from this new ‘spacer’ and extracted and shortened the original spline. For the adaptor plate I am using a piece of 10mm plate that will have a 3mm deep by 283 dia spigot that will register with the recess in the beetle bellhousing. The gearbox spline obviously comes from an old Clutchplate.
As the beetle gearbox mounts originally supported the whole 100kg engine it should be more than adequate to support the 40kg Y61. Also the spacer to motor fit has to be perfect as it hasn’t been changed and uses original fittings. The spacer to adaptor plate may need an extra spacer or two to be added as the mounting surface doesn’t extend the whole way around. Most of the centre of the adaptor plate will then be removed to reduce mass.
Chris
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tom91
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by tom91 »

I have a rear inverter for development purposes and a 3d scanner so made a scan to use in packaging studies.

Image

https://grabcad.com/library/mitsubishi- ... v-heater-1

Is there anyone near Bristol with a rear motor and gearbox for me to scan?
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by tom91 »

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Zapatero
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by Zapatero »

Nice work
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bobby_come_lately
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by bobby_come_lately »

Brilliant - thanks Tom. Still waiting on my 3D scanner. Looks like Creality have got themselves in hot water over IP for the software.
tom91
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by tom91 »

I have not had the experience of tuning and running an Outlander rear motor and inverter in a vehicle yet at anger.

Currently working through my VCU development and figuring out what sort of limits need to be accounted for on the torque request.
My idea is the following:
  • Voltage limit from BMS
  • Current limit from BMS (this one will require a bit of tuning)
  • Temperature limit based on inverter and motor temp
Has anyone ran the rear inverter enough to find out if the inverter itself contains any temperature protection? If so is it hard limit or does it derate itself?

Once I have a test vehicle running I will be figuring out more details around the inverter operation and hoping to feedback onto the wiki and dbc files. Currently only running it on a pallet.
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aot93
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by aot93 »

I've not been able to get the motor or inverter hot enough to hit any firmware limits, 56c is the max I've got to I think.

I can quite easily exceed the limits I get from simp, but this triggers crude de-rating on my code
The inverter seems happy running at these limits.

Do let me know if you want me to try anything specific or log the inverter under load
plmicia
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by plmicia »

RMCU is monitoring several temperatures. Those are which I was able to identify:

Motor T1 sensor overheat: STOP @ 170 Cdeg START @ 155 Cdeg
Motor T2 sensor overheat: STOP @ 170 Cdeg START @ 155 Cdeg
DC link capacitor Tdc: STOP @ 105 Cdeg START @ 95 Cdeg
IGBT T3: STOP @ 90 Cdeg START @ 80 Cdeg
IGBT T2: STOP @ 90 Cdeg START @ 80 Cdeg
IGBT T1: STOP @ 90 Cdeg START @ 80 Cdeg
TCPU/PCB - STOP @ ~107Cdeg. START @ ~87 Cdeg.

RMCU also recognize sensor failures (open sensor and short sensor). So it is well protected.
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Zapatero
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by Zapatero »

Does the outlander inverter have any internal limits, such as max kw?
arber333
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by arber333 »

Zapatero wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 3:20 pm Does the outlander inverter have any internal limits, such as max kw?
Wouldnt know... have to wait for my Mazda drop in replacement. IGBT is 600V 600A unit. Voltage limit is 400Vdc and at 600A would get you 200kW accounting for voltage drop depending on your battery... Internal rails seem to be about 50mm2 and motor cables are about 35mm2.
I think you could even use fatter motor cables.
nlc
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by nlc »

Hello !
Actually I built the electrical power train of 3 electric buggys, using Peugeot Ion Meiden motor, which is the same motor than Outlander PHEV I believe. To drive these Meiden motors I actually use Rinehart inverters from Cascadia Motion. It works but Rinehart inverters are very expensive, and for next buggy version I want to use the standard Meiden Inverter. So I need to drive the inverter from my VCU through CAN bus.

I actually work with a Peugeot-Ion car. On the car side harness of the inverter, there are 6 wires.
In a first attempt I found :
- GND
- 12V
- CAN_L
- CAN_H

So last week I cut the CAN bus and connected it on my CAN gateway : on my Linux computer I have 2 USB/CAN interfaces, first interface is connected on car side, the second is connected the the inverter :

Car CAN bus <---> CAN1 <---> Computer <---> CAN2 <---> Inverter CAN bus

The software I wrote repeat CAN1 to CAN2 frames and CAN2 to CAN1 frames, thus the car works normally, but I can :
- Know which frame come from the car
- Know which frame come from the inverter
- Filter frames from car to inverter
- Filter frames from inverter to car

So I put the car in drive mode and started to filter one by one CAN frames from car to inverter to find frame ID the inverter is waiting for. Big surprise ! After all frame was filtered, car is working normally and inverter too !

So I understood the inverter receive torque consign from another way, and with oscilloscope I finally found the 5th wire of the inverter harness is a K-Line ! So I build an interface to connect it to my computer and confirmed the inverter gets torque consign from here.

Next step today, I disconnected K-Line from the inverter, and it also gets the torque consign from CAN.
Like last week, I filtered CAN frame from car to inverter one by one, and finally discovered that only one frame is required : 0x285

I found Byte 1 and 2 are torque consign with a 2000 offset value
I found Byte 4 and 5 are 12V battery voltage, don't know why the inverter needs that, but if I force another value nothing happen, but if I put 0 inverter stops.

When I filter the 0x285 frame from car to inverter and replace it with my own 0x285 frame with the computer, I can change the torque consign but discovered it works only when PRND is in R or D mode. Thus the inverter also receive an hardware enable mode, and discovered it is the 6th and last wire of the harness. When 0V the inverter is disabled, when 8V the inverter is enabled (why 8V and not 12V I don't know).

Now I need to find what are the other data of this 0x285 frame. Is there someone here who already get the inverter working with homemade 0x285 frame?
Regards
Cyril (from France)
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bexander
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by bexander »

Maybe this can help, it is for the ZombiVerter VCU which can control the Outlander rear inverter.
https://github.com/damienmaguire/Stm32- ... verter.cpp
nlc
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by nlc »

Thank you, firmware should be different between Mitsubishi Outlander and Peugeot Ion because yesterday I was able to drive the inverter with only the frame ID 0x285, without specific sequence
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thornogson
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Re: Outlander rear motor and inverter

Post by thornogson »

Hi @nic ,

I've got a c zero motor in a 2cv project , will any imiev/ion/czero inverter work with it and the zombieverter ?

cheers
John
We are all ignorant, just about different things. If y'aint learnin', y'aint livin'
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