Chinese 125cc + Honda IMA motor

[Mouse]

Starting a conversion of a Chinese 125 motorboike and thought I'd document it here and over on Endless Sphere forum.
I have got a much bigger project on the go but been unable to actually start construction because of the Covid business restricting available money to buy critical components which is why I'll make the occasional comment about Prius inverters elsewhere on the forum.

Main Components are,
Direct Bikes 125cc Enduro
Two 48V 60Ah 2.8kWh 13s20p 18650 server backup battery packs.
Two 2kW Eltek Flatpack2 48V battery chargers.
Honda IMA IPU motor controler
Honda IMA flywheel motor, approx 20hp

I'm working to a very limited budget so almost all parts are used and some even come from the scrap pile.

The battery packs are very well built so I'm going to keep them as they are unless it is simply not possible to mount them sensibly. I'm hoping the batteries are actually good and give a fair proportion of their marked 2.8kWh (5.6kWh total). The batteries will be in series making a 96V 26s20p pack which leaves limited options for BMS systems. I've been experimenting with the diyBMS system https://github.com/stuartpittaway/diyBMSv4 which is really intended for power wall applications but is expandable and fully open source which I like. I should also really pay more attention to the BMS system Johu is developing. As the batteries will be in parallel and producing around 100V I will also have to be more careful with weather protection and insulation so will probably make an aluminium housing for the battery pack and high voltage power electronics.

The biggest task at the moment is to make up some end plates for the motor as it comes without them.

As the chargers are capable of charging at 4kW which on a 5.6kWh battery is in the realms of fast charging so the end goal is to also have a Type 2 EV charge socket so I can travel further than the return range will allow and use roadside charge points.

Might be worth adding the budget so far is...
£75 Donor bike with log book (3 years and 8 months old!)
£300 Batteries
£100 Chargers
£50 Honda IMA power unit
£40 Honda IMA motor
Total £565

I'd like to get it running and on the road for less than £800 which leaves me with about £235 for all the other bits + maintenance on a terribly made Chinese bike to get it through a MOT test and on the road.

[Bigpie]

I have a type 2 inlet (I think) from an outlander you can have cheap or swapsies if you need, came with a chademo for 60 quid for the pair. Its just in my box of hoard for later.

[LRBen]

I'm using a DalyBMS for my current quad battery which is 20s1p 48Ah pouch cells, rated for 250amp continuous. It was about £150 though.
I used a cheaper generic chinesium BMS in the previous incarnation when my battery setup was 13s2p using the same cells.
Both seemed to work fine.

I might also have some limited aluminium CNC routing capabilities in the next few weeks if you need to get some end plates fabricated. But that might be a bit slow for your time frame.

[Mouse]

swapsies if you need.

I might have to take you up on that.
Not sure if i've got anything you'd want as swapsies.

I've considered CHADEMO for the big project but around here CSS points are becoming much more common.

[Mouse]

I'm using a DalyBMS for my current quad battery which is 20s1p 48Ah pouch cells, rated for 250amp continuous. It was about £150 though.
I used a cheaper generic chinesium BMS in the previous incarnation when my battery setup was 13s2p using the same cells.
Both seemed to work fine.

This system is a string of individual modules with an optical link between them all and a WiFi config page. It has a few relay outputs to terminate charge and flag battery errors like low cell voltag etc.

I might also have some limited aluminium CNC routing capabilities in the next few weeks if you need to get some end plates fabricated. But that might be a bit slow for your time frame.

Thanks for the offer. I've decided to cut it out by hand as drawing it all up accurately for CNC and getting the centre correct for armature alignment is a lot of effort for a one-off and even then could easily be wrong enough to scrap the job.

[Bigpie]

swapsies if you need.

I might have to take you up on that.
Not sure if i've got anything you'd want as swapsies.

I've considered CHADEMO for the big project but around here CSS points are becoming much more common.

Just had a look at it, it's a type 1.

I need an oil rad, contactor, vacuum res, coolant hosing, vacuum check valve probably other small bits and bobs. Maybe £20?

[Mouse]

Not much progress this month other than removing the engine and related gubbins and mocking up the location of battery, IMA Controller and twin Eltek chargers.

To get the battery to fit the frame I had to remove the frame down tube that supported the engine which acted as a stressed member to the lower rear frame. A new subframe will be built to regain strength and experience with altering other motorbikes tells me this change will get a MOT when I need it despite technically needing a new registration if you're going to be a pedant with the rules.
Very luckily the original ground clearance and bash plate are maintainable which is useful as I am slightly short in the leg and will eventually want to lower the ride height by a couple of inches.

The IMA motor is flat and of large diameter so the plan is to offset the batteries and have it along side them.
I've replaced the bike panelling and fuel tank to confirm it will all go back with the batteries and motor in place which is something I'm very pleased about.

Here the motor casing is mocked up in place on the wrong side because I currently don't have room to get to both sides of the frame easily and at this stage of the project the frame can be considered symmetrical (No motorbike frame I've worked on is ever symmetrical ) .

When putting the panelling back on I realised that if I'm going to carry a Type 2 charge cable I'll be able to put some sort of tubular container under the rear right hand side panelling in place of the exhaust to stow it in.

The motor will not interfere with the foot position much so hopefully the peg location will not need changing.

The batteries, IMA controller and chargers will need waterproof enclosures as I intend this to be an every day bike to use around town and local trips in all weathers. The plan is to make aluminium cases for each major electrical part and the casing will also form part of the mounting bracketery.

The next stage of the project is to load test the batteries to assess if they are worth continuing using in the project as firstly they are second hand and secondly to see if they will have any significant warming under charging / discharging to require active cooling, and hence a much more elaborate enclosure.

To do this load testing at a potential maximum of 100V, 15 - 20kw I've got some cooker elements I will cut into thirds to work at 100V.
This will also give me a chance to test the BMS system I have as I'm not convinced I should keep it or switch to the 4 channel daisy chained system being developed over on the BMS threads.

Collection of New and Used cooker elements.

One cut open and the element pulled out a bit. I should be able to crimp a wire to this.
I'll be able to bend the element to a new shape by hand. It won't be elegant but should be practical.

[Romale]

Honda IMA IPU motor controler

hello. this is a great piece of hardware for creating a controller for motorcycles. did you manage to launch it?

[coleasterling]

Check out the ES forums where some guys have been working on a drop-in board for the IMA controller. I personally funded most (edit: some!) of the development on it and a guy who goes by kiwi is doing the work. He should be able to sell you a board.

EDIT: I overestimated my contribution to Kiwi's efforts. I did not mean to, in any way, diminish what he has done, or to take undue credit for it. My sincere apologies.

[Mouse]

That's interesting.
Do you have a link to that forum? I don't appear to be having sensible google results.

If I had more time I'd consider making a breakout to the Openinverter STM32 system.

[kiwifiat]

Here is a photo of the board ready to be patched into a gen2 Honda IMA inverter:

And here is a YT video of it in action on Eric Ensley's cart:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7by7oVfw86s

A fair amount of work hooking it into the existing 20 pin IMA socket but worth the effort. Currently the resolver firmware only supports 1:1 lobe to motor pole pair resolvers like the HSG and the Nissan Leaf. I'm not sure what the pole count of the IMA motor is or the resolver for that matter.

[Romale]

And here is a YT video of it in action on Eric Ensley's cart:

Judging by the description of the video there is a Lebowski controller

[kiwifiat]

Check out the ES forums where some guys have been working on a drop-in board for the IMA controller. I personally funded most of the development on it and a guy who goes by kiwi is doing the work. He should be able to sell you a board.

That's hilarious Cole, I have two and a half weeks/100 hours and counting on this project. When exactly did you fund most of that? Your sponsorship has been appreciated and broadcast on every platform I have a presence on but your claim is incorrect. Those three boards you ordered have been built and tested.To give you an idea of what is involved starting from a blank pcb: to clean, apply solder paste, hand place 133 individual components, reflow, inspect, correct any miss-aligned components, clean flux residue, flash resolver and controller firmware, temporarily install in an inverter and carry out a 24 hour burn in test takes around 4 hours labour per board. So if you don't want to pay for them now no worries but it would be appreciated if you could let me know either way.

[Ryclanmoto]

Here is a photo of the board ready to be patched into a gen2 Honda IMA inverter:
Lebowski_IMA_2.PNG

And here is a YT video of it in action on Eric Ensley's cart:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7by7oVfw86s

A fair amount of work hooking it into the existing 20 pin IMA socket but worth the effort. Currently the resolver firmware only supports 1:1 lobe to motor pole pair resolvers like the HSG and the Nissan Leaf. I'm not sure what the pole count of the IMA motor is or the resolver for that matter.

hi do you have gerber file

[kiwifiat]

hi do you have gerber file

The gerbers will be released once Cole carries out some testing of the IMA/HSG combo on some electric minibike series that is supposed to be happening in Texas. I am really not sure of the timeline for that to happen but hopefully sooner rather than later.

[Ryclanmoto]

cool, waiting for the results, it will be interesting

[coleasterling]

That's hilarious Cole, I have two and a half weeks/100 hours and counting on this project. When exactly did you fund most of that? Your sponsorship has been appreciated and broadcast on every platform I have a presence on but your claim is incorrect. Those three boards you ordered have been built and tested.To give you an idea of what is involved starting from a blank pcb: to clean, apply solder paste, hand place 133 individual components, reflow, inspect, correct any miss-aligned components, clean flux residue, flash resolver and controller firmware, temporarily install in an inverter and carry out a 24 hour burn in test takes around 4 hours labour per board. So if you don't want to pay for them now no worries but it would be appreciated if you could let me know either way.

Kiwi, my sincerest apologies here. I reached out via email and I'm hoping we can make this right. I never meant to slight you or your efforts. You're doing incredible work!

[kiwifiat]

Kiwi, my sincerest apologies here. I reached out via email and I'm hoping we can make this right. I never meant to slight you or your efforts. You're doing incredible work!

No worries, glad to hear covid didn't get you

[Romale]

when will this motorcycle go?
I'm still really waiting for the results, because this is a very interesting project.
P.S: I drive the same inverters ima, but I use the OI v3 board.
even a heavy car weighing almost 1500 kg rides it perfectly!

[whereswally606]

Hi guys kiwifiat and cole.
Still have my lebowski boards (managed to bugger up the 6pack ixys prototype power stage by a wrong config) i need to decouple the power stage and reset the errant setting where i inverter the hi/lo side fets stupidly.

Anyway mouse, i see you are using stuart pittaways v4 bms. I have built one too but i only have it running 4s ie 12v i really want more slave boards, did you order any overs i could buy off you?