Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
- aot93
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Yep the mini installation is mine, the motor is effectively upside down, it spins quite happily like this, no nasty noises from the reduction gear / diff.
Not sure how it will affect cooling etc in the longer term, but it seems happy.
Finished making the shafts last night so the real drive tests will start soon!
Not sure how it will affect cooling etc in the longer term, but it seems happy.
Finished making the shafts last night so the real drive tests will start soon!
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
What are you using for inverter? Is is original mitsubishi inverter via CAN? I wonder how it would behave if we commanded 200Nm in reverse.aot93 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:33 am Yep the mini installation is mine, the motor is effectively upside down, it spins quite happily like this, no nasty noises from the reduction gear / diff.
Not sure how it will affect cooling etc in the longer term, but it seems happy.
Finished making the shafts last night so the real drive tests will start soon!
- aot93
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Stock inverter with can control.
It's hard to tell until I get it on the road, but I did some tests with some high values for regen and it worked as expected.
I've had it spin in reverse at 10k RPM so there is no speed control in the inverter that I can see.
It seems to me it's a fairly dumb system and will just do what you ask.
I limit the reverse speed to -1500 RPM in code.
It's hard to tell until I get it on the road, but I did some tests with some high values for regen and it worked as expected.
I've had it spin in reverse at 10k RPM so there is no speed control in the inverter that I can see.
It seems to me it's a fairly dumb system and will just do what you ask.
I limit the reverse speed to -1500 RPM in code.
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
How do you limit speed, just by Hz or did you find a CAN report for RPM?
Tnx
- aot93
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
RPM is available from the rear inverter on 0x289 bytes 2 & 3
Then I just hard cut the torque to 0
Code: Select all
motorRPM = (msg.buf[2] * 256 + msg.buf[3] - 20000)
Code: Select all
if (motorRPM < -1500)
{
torqueRequest = 0;
}
- aot93
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Big moment last night, the mini moved for the first time
https://youtu.be/JnUx1pAPPKg
Of course with a proper load on the motor I find new problems.
My big one being I can't seem to get much power from the motor before it shuts down.
Seems to be more than a few amps and I get a hard cut.
CAN bus commands look good, and I have by-passed the BMS limits for now.
I'm thinking possibly a problem with the inverter or maybe there is something I'm missing on the CAN side.
Edit - Found the problem, byte 6 of 0x287 should be set to 0x03
I had previously been sending the torque request on all bytes, a throw back to tracking down another problem.
So when the HI byte was at x27 it was working, but going to x28 caused it to stop.
So now we know there is another way to cut the rear inverter along with the RSDN signal!
Thanks to Damien Maguire, I was looking at the code he posted and saw it well commented in there.
https://youtu.be/JnUx1pAPPKg
Of course with a proper load on the motor I find new problems.
My big one being I can't seem to get much power from the motor before it shuts down.
Seems to be more than a few amps and I get a hard cut.
CAN bus commands look good, and I have by-passed the BMS limits for now.
I'm thinking possibly a problem with the inverter or maybe there is something I'm missing on the CAN side.
Edit - Found the problem, byte 6 of 0x287 should be set to 0x03
I had previously been sending the torque request on all bytes, a throw back to tracking down another problem.
So when the HI byte was at x27 it was working, but going to x28 caused it to stop.
So now we know there is another way to cut the rear inverter along with the RSDN signal!
Thanks to Damien Maguire, I was looking at the code he posted and saw it well commented in there.
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Fuck yeah!
*pumps fist*
I was half-considering abandoning my gargantuan forklift motor and going with the Lexus MGR, seemed less likely considering the added complications, but it's good to see how fast you're progressing with the Outlander back end, especially on a skinny vehicle (so's mine).
Congrats on the milestone. You no longer have a car-shaped project, you have a car-project-that-just-needs-finishing now. Big difference. Until you get the motor moving the vehicle, it's never really a car yet, and you've progressed past that
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
I originally started with a Toyota MGR and a Yaris/Auris inverter. Having come to the conclusion that the MGR might not give an adequate performance for my 72’ superbug I bought and installed an Outlander rear drive. I should have read the small print first! The Outlander seems to be a permanent magnet synchronous motor and the FOC software guide states that this control system “...will not drive PMSM motors in an efficient manner.”
Could someone please clarify for me if this is a ‘do not proceed’ or ‘it’s just not the best method’.
Thanks,
Chris
Could someone please clarify for me if this is a ‘do not proceed’ or ‘it’s just not the best method’.
Thanks,
Chris
- johu
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Maybe that note is a bit misleading. I'd be surprised if this motor wasn't an IPM, which confusingly is an abbreviation of an abbreviation and means "Interior Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor"
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Leaf and Outlander rear motor are very similar. Both are IPMs with magnets in V config inside rotor steel. This will optimise torque and backEMF for good torque curve at higher rpm. But i find starting IPM motor would need a change in control strategy. My Lebowski inverter is fully capable of running those motors, however i find it annoying i have to apply a lot of throttle on start where at high rpm only a fraction change would mean higher torque on wheels. I even tried shifting encoder zero point for better starts... with limited success.
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Great stuff! Is there any more detailed example how to run the motor? I have setup the hw and have can communication, but still investigate the stuff that was RE-ed.aot93 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:29 pm RPM is available from the rear inverter on 0x289 bytes 2 & 3
Then I just hard cut the torque to 0Code: Select all
motorRPM = (msg.buf[2] * 256 + msg.buf[3] - 20000)
Code: Select all
if (motorRPM < -1500) { torqueRequest = 0; }
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
I don't suppose you have the pinout from that internal white resolver connector? I'm about to replace the connector with the cable gland and a new deutsch connector, but it'd be nice not to have try to work it out from scratch!Bram wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:39 pmThanks, meanwhile I've figured it out. Made a "mistake". took the colors and pinout from Arber333, but its seems they correspond with wiring colors from the black connector (outside motor), while I looked at the colors from the white resolver connector(inside motor), they have the same colors, but when the white connects to the black connector it switch colors. but we are good, we have a really nice signal right now.LRBen wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:46 am
I'll take a look tomorrow when I am there and get back to you on that. I can't remember off the top of my head.
I found that on throttle my motor is a bit more unsteady, it will also sometimes not move and draw a bit of current. But I am not sure how much of that is to do with the PWM wires on the control board being wired wrong at the moment.
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Unfortunately I'm not near the inverter by myself, so i thought some here will know:
What is supposed to be on these holes?
Thanks, Philip
What is supposed to be on these holes?
Thanks, Philip
- rstevens81
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
I think it's the charger&dcdc
Or it least it looks like the dcdc/charger would fit based on the charger I have
Or it least it looks like the dcdc/charger would fit based on the charger I have
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Which rule does everyone forget
- aot93
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Yes 1 is for charger / dc-dc.
I can't remember what the other is for on Outlander, I use it for my heater.
I can't remember what the other is for on Outlander, I use it for my heater.
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
The other is for the heater.
The 40 amp fuse is heater I believe.
The 40 amp fuse is heater I believe.
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Does anyone know the weight of the Rear Motor without the reduction Gearbox part, IE just the motor?
The Wiki says 42kg, but it is not clear if this refers to the "whole" unit as one would buy from a breakers yard with the reduction gearbox and differential attached or without.
Thanks
The Wiki says 42kg, but it is not clear if this refers to the "whole" unit as one would buy from a breakers yard with the reduction gearbox and differential attached or without.
Thanks
- rstevens81
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
It's just the motor, it's damn heavy to move by hand ...(don't ask me how I know)
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- crasbe
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Yes, 42kg is certainly only the motor. The reduction gearbox is about the same I'd guess.
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
About 60kg with the gearbox/differential. My motor alone is 41kg.
( gearbox/diff 15.5kg, + 3 mounting brackets about 1kg each )
( gearbox/diff 15.5kg, + 3 mounting brackets about 1kg each )
- marcexec
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
I took the liberty to add your data to https://openinverter.org/wiki/Mitsubish ... Drive_Unit
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
with some minor shaving of the plugged coolant port on the motor, type 2 (100mm) cv flanges fit nicely
Type 1 (90mm) (vw beetle) fit great as-is.
108mm or 930 flanges should fit, but with a lot more shaving of the motor case.
https://bratindustries.net/ leaf motor couplers, adapter plates, custom drive train components
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Looks great, wish they had been available last year before I took the diff/reduction box off mine and built an adaptor to connect to the original gearbox. I now have a spare outlander rear motor ready for my next project so I may still be in the market for a pair down the track.
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Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Just wondering is there some standard for distance between flanges/stubs? If replacing VW transmission model XYZ with mitsubishi rear diff with these stubs, will original drive shafts fit lengthwise?