Hybrid setup

[Robthetramplingman]

Hello everybody,
My name is Rob and I’m a complete newbie in this space. It is great to see how much knowledge is here and I’m stunned by the projects some of you pull off. I already read a lot and watched a lot of youtube to learn as fast as I can, but it is a lot…..

I have this plan in mind that has got me completely hooked, and I wonder if your knowledge can help me out
It’s a plug in hybrid setup for a campervan. Fully electric is an issue because of weight limitations (battery pack) on the vehicle and the size the thing of it makes the range to smal.

I have a Audi q7 quatro Hybrid gearbox that has a 308Volts 98Kw 3 phase motor
The gearbox Itself wil be controlled with a HTG gearbox controller that can be hooked up to the engine management of the combustion engine via canbus. This controller is open source and has a lot of parameters to fiddle with.

The exact working principle of the electric motor coupled to the rest I’m still studying on, but what I can see from the technical drawing and exploded views is that it consists of a servo actuated dry clutch that can switch between Full electric, full combustion and combo. How that wil work in the end is not clear yet. If it involves some manual intervention, than that is fine as long as it is safe.

The thing for me is powering the electric motor. This is what I had in mind:

HV Battery Pack preferably Tesla model 3 60 KW 350V because they fit like a glove in the chassis
It is not yet clear to me how to the cooling heating of the tesla packs work.
Pre-Charge Contactor and Resistor Nissan Leaf
Negative Contactor Nissan Leaf
Positive Contactor Nissan Leaf
Nissan Leaf Inverter gen 3 120KW 350V WITH FAST CHARGE OPTION
Precharge unit (Tesla or Nissan?)
Open Source Logic Board (open inverter)
Fast charge plug Nissan leaf
Leaf cooling system for cooling motor and inverter system
Resolver or encoder is on the motor on the audi gearbox but no info on which exactly yet.

The engine ECU is GM and has these signals:
GMLAN High Speed (-)
MIL
Engine Speed
Vehicle Speed - Out
MAP Signal
GMLAN Low Speed (+)
Oil pressure signal
Throttle Pos #2 (0.5v - 4.5v)
Ignition "OnPower

The combustion engine and gearbox are a fixed plan, with or without hybrid (I have the same gearbox non hybrid) The rest is to be designed as simple and solid as possible, IF possible. Better ideas are very welcome.

Couple of questions:

Most important; Do’s and don’s,?? Ive seen a lot of trial and error here so the best advice is how NOT to do it.
Is the leaf the route to go or Tesla or something else?
Is the recuperating brake switched on by brake light signal? Because of the mass of the van I think that having this properly engaged is a big power generator
Is the accelerator signal from the GM ecu useable for the leaf inverter?
Is there somebody that has a list of parts with part numbers from the leaf that I would need for this?

Looking forward to you ideas and questions te learn from!

[johu]

Hello everybody,
My name is Rob and I’m a complete newbie in this space. It is great to see how much knowledge is here and I’m stunned by the projects some of you pull off. I already read a lot and watched a lot of youtube to learn as fast as I can, but it is a lot…..

I have this plan in mind that has got me completely hooked, and I wonder if your knowledge can help me out
It’s a plug in hybrid setup for a campervan. Fully electric is an issue because of weight limitations (battery pack) on the vehicle and the size the thing of it makes the range to smal.

Welcome here, great project. Lets see how often you need the combustion engine

Pre-Charge Contactor and Resistor Nissan Leaf
Negative Contactor Nissan Leaf
Positive Contactor Nissan Leaf
Nissan Leaf Inverter gen 3 120KW 350V WITH FAST CHARGE OPTION
Precharge unit (Tesla or Nissan?)
Open Source Logic Board (open inverter)
Fast charge plug Nissan leaf
Leaf cooling system for cooling motor and inverter system
Resolver or encoder is on the motor on the audi gearbox but no info on which exactly yet.

I think there is one duplicate, "Precharge unit" is the same as "Pre-Charge Contactor and Resistor Nissan Leaf".
Fast charging is independent of the inverter. You just need the CHAdeMO socket, relays and e.g. Damiens controller to use it.
I think the Leaf inverter is not the best option because its terminals are not enclosed and it is expensive. More suited to actually bolt on top of a Leaf motor. I think a Prius Gen2 or Gen3 inverter will do the job just fine.

Is the recuperating brake switched on by brake light signal? Because of the mass of the van I think that having this properly engaged is a big power generator
Is the accelerator signal from the GM ecu useable for the leaf inverter?

There are many control option for recuperation (regen). You can statically set it up in the inverter to be controlled by the first X% of throttle pedal, i.e. the more you come off, the stronger it is. There is also the option to scale it via a secondary analog potentiometer or via CAN. Last but not least the brake light switch can statically produce some additional regen.

By accelerator signal you mean an analog voltage or CAN message? Whatever it is, either can be used.

[Robthetramplingman]

Thank you!

So to be clear, A 350V tesla battery pack can feed a prius gen 3 inverter, and with that inverter I can controll a 308V 98KW 3 phase Audi electric motor?

I just found out that the battery pack of a Tesla model 3 actually contains the charger, DC-DC converter, and battery management system in one integrated unit. Is that a better option to buy? Room is not an isue.
Can the tesla system stil run the audi hybrid motor? I mean it is 350 Volts and I do not want to burn the motor?

Thanks

[johu]

So to be clear, A 350V tesla battery pack can feed a prius gen 3 inverter, and with that inverter I can controll a 308V 98KW 3 phase Audi electric motor?

Yes.
More info on gen2: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Gen2_Board
More info on gen3: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Gen3_Board

I just found out that the battery pack of a Tesla model 3 actually contains the charger, DC-DC converter, and battery management system in one integrated unit. Is that a better option to buy? Room is not an isue.
Can the tesla system stil run the audi hybrid motor? I mean it is 350 Volts and I do not want to burn the motor?

Yes the PCS (=DC-DC converter and charger) has been hacked and can be used. I recommend you make use of it.
The BMS I'm not sure, maybe Tom or Damien will step in.
The Tesla system does not run any motor, it is just a voltage source. The inverter takes care of running the motor with appropriate voltage. You need to find out if it is a synchronous or asynchronous motor.

[Robthetramplingman]

The Q7 has a permanently excited synchronous motor according to the service bulletin

[Robthetramplingman]

I was thinking, 350V on a 308V motor, is only a 12% overload. That will convert into 1st: extra power, thats good. 2nd is more heat. If i upgrade the cooling system, for example bigger radiator and put the electric motor first in line to receive coolant from the radiator, I dont think it wil be damaged long term, what do you think?

[arber333]

I was thinking, 350V on a 308V motor, is only a 12% overload. That will convert into 1st: extra power, thats good. 2nd is more heat. If i upgrade the cooling system, for example bigger radiator and put the electric motor first in line to receive coolant from the radiator, I dont think it wil be damaged long term, what do you think?

Dont think of it as overload. In truth you will almost never use it like this. When you setup your openinverter for the motor to run smoothly it will conform voltage sourcing to motor. What extra V is there you could use for extra RPM. In truth extra power is there but it is short term power and at that you already burn extra amps and heat up motor core.

Every motor can work at higher voltage, it is up to inverter to appropriate that voltage to smooth out the motor (PWM).

[Robthetramplingman]

This is the gearbox:

[Robthetramplingman]

There is a lot to learn,,,, even posting pictures, thanks Johannes

[Robthetramplingman]

Good afternoon,

Been working on the setup (on paper) and after the advice given here and studying the website of damian and other sources, I come up with this setup / shoppinglist:

Tesla model 3 batterypack pref. long range incl. BMS and PMS
Tesla watercooling system
Tesla waterheater
Tesla chademo socket and cables
Toyota Prius 3 gen. Inverter preferably incl. cables
Tesla AC pump (could be connected straight to the tesla batterypack)

I found out that the prius has a Synchronous motor and the Audi Hybrid as well so that should be a match
After visiting the website of Damian I found out the boards are all on the verge of being available. I would need:

Prius inverter board
Tesla BMS controller board
Tesla PCS controller board

Anything I forgot?