Connecting a GS450H to an existing Transfer Case?

[Greenbeast]

if you took a Tesla motor/gearbox and rotated it 90degrees, connect the front and rear diff to ethere side of the motor. This would be awd. The Tesla motor would become a “centre “ diff. there’s a variety of options to go from there.
1. leave the Tesla motor as a open diff. this would result in awd, but power would bias to the front or rear with the least traction.
2. Put a lsd in the Tesla motor. This would be awd, but would maintain a power split between the front and rear. Regardless of traction between the two.
3. weld the Tesla diff. the system is no longer awd and is now 4x4. 50/50 power splits between the front and rear. there would be torque bind between the front and rear if going threw a turn on high traction surfaces. Like pavement.
locking hubs would be used to disconnect a set of wheels for high traction surface driving.



or you put in a devoced transfer case.
the t-case has separate shifter sticks to engage/disengage 4wd, and low range.

The tcase has one input shaft (drive from the transmission, in this case the 450h) and 2 output: front and rear diff.



4wd≠awd there’s a big difference and people often conflate them.

4wd= 50/50 power split between front and rear.
Awd= active torque biasing between front and rear. (There’s a diff between the front and rear)

there’s a variety of awd methods.

Only one 4x4 method

I can't afford tesla

I kinda knew that about 4x4/awd, thanks for elucidating though.

[Greenbeast]

Your transfer case is highly unlikely to have a center diff in it although it is possible. More likely to be 2wd (rear) for on-road use and 4wd for off-road use.

This is precisely the case in this vehicle in stock configuration

But worth pointing out that the reduction gearbox attached to the Leaf motor is about 8:1 and your front and rear diffs reduce that ratio even further severely limiting top speed.

I believe your car has live axles (solid beam between the wheels).

I need to run the numbers for the leaf option with my current transmission.

I would look at getting 2 Leaf motors and connecting 1 directly to each axle's diff input. That would be cool.

I cannot afford that, although it would be cool

[sfk]

I would look at getting 2 Leaf motors and connecting 1 directly to each axle's diff input. That would be cool.

I cannot afford that, although it would be cool

Leaf Motors are super cheap. And you could probably drive 2 of them with 1 Toyota inverter.

[Greenbeast]

I would look at getting 2 Leaf motors and connecting 1 directly to each axle's diff input. That would be cool.

I cannot afford that, although it would be cool

Leaf Motors are super cheap. And you could probably drive 2 of them with 1 Toyota inverter.

I've yet to see real world evidence of their cheapness. Saw a motor /inverter stack on ebay for a grand just last week

Here :
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nissan-Leaf- ... 890.l49292

[sfk]

I cannot afford that, although it would be cool

Leaf Motors are super cheap. And you could probably drive 2 of them with 1 Toyota inverter.

I've yet to see real world evidence of their cheapness. Saw a motor /inverter stack on ebay for a grand just last week

Here :
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nissan-Leaf- ... 890.l49292

Yeah I guess that really depends on what you call cheap. The motors are very cheap for what you get. Lot cheaper than a Tesla unit for sure. You can buy them cheaper without the inverter stack but it would make more sense to get that too if you're using 1 motor (to keep things simple).

Nothing about doing an EV conversion is cheap though, from what I've learned so far

[Greenbeast]

Looks like it might be simpler to return to Plan A of a leaf motor, and retain the full stock transmission, i was loving the thought of saving all the engine bay space with the lexus transmission, but it seems to introduce too many complications with gearing

[slow67]

Another option is the GS450h gearbox with a divorced transfer case. Most Ive seen are 1:1 High and around 2:1 or more in low.

[Greenbeast]

Another option is the GS450h gearbox with a divorced transfer case. Most Ive seen are 1:1 High and around 2:1 or more in low.

Yes i have considered that, but i think it's an unwanted extra expense and would bring the 450 box further into the engine bay (to accommodate a short prop shaft between 450 and Tcase)
A pared back leaf motor, even wedded to existing transmission would not protrude much further into the bay and would be a much simpler install

[TinkerTan]

New to the forum. Came looking to see what people are working on and interested in regarding the gearboxes from RX, GS & LS.
If appropriate for this thread, I'd like to get feedback of interest in a custom machined adapter kit from GS450h gearbox to Toyota transfer cases, including flange/ adapter and output shaft. Toyota xfer cases are already pretty generic, output shaft flanges vary in spline count.
PM me if interested - if I see enough interest, I may cnc machine a batch. I have yet to pick up a gearbox to design and test fit an adapter.
Thanks

[Greenbeast]

I'm curious for a ball park figure of what that would cost, nothing you have to stick to if anything goes ahead, just something to put in my mind.

And so we're clear, this would enable a stock married xfer case to hook up directly to the GS450H box?

[jnsaff]

For peeps in Europe there is one (maybe even two) full LS600h gearbox with the transfer case available for 90 EUR. Shipping to my neck of woods is about 90EUR, probably uneconomical for the rest of the world. No cable harnesses unfortunately. https://www.xdalys.lt/en/lexus-ls-600h- ... earboxes_1

[nkiernan]

For peeps in Europe there is one (maybe even two) full LS600h gearbox with the transfer case available for 90 EUR. Shipping to my neck of woods is about 90EUR, probably uneconomical for the rest of the world. No cable harnesses unfortunately. https://www.xdalys.lt/en/lexus-ls-600h- ... earboxes_1

Cheers for the heads up jnsaff, I've taken a punt on this one!

[ZooKeeper]

Nothing about doing an EV conversion is cheap though, from what I've learned so far

A lot depends on your local market.

I scored two Prius Gen2 inverters, an MGR and a Leaf relay board for: $95 + $64 + $100 + $65(?) delivered to my doorstep. I consider that pretty damned cheap, less in fact than a used Prius engine

Now that battery, she's BRUTAL at like $2k, but I can get some of that back selling the cells I do not need.

[jnsaff]

For peeps in Europe there is one (maybe even two) full LS600h gearbox with the transfer case available for 90 EUR. Shipping to my neck of woods is about 90EUR, probably uneconomical for the rest of the world. No cable harnesses unfortunately. https://www.xdalys.lt/en/lexus-ls-600h- ... earboxes_1

Cheers for the heads up jnsaff, I've taken a punt on this one!

You're welcome, you might also be interested in the matching inverter for 46.80EUR https://www.xdalys.lt/en/lexus-ls-600h- ... r_others_1

[nkiernan]

For peeps in Europe there is one (maybe even two) full LS600h gearbox with the transfer case available for 90 EUR. Shipping to my neck of woods is about 90EUR, probably uneconomical for the rest of the world. No cable harnesses unfortunately. https://www.xdalys.lt/en/lexus-ls-600h- ... earboxes_1

So got on Paypal, paid the 90 EUR and shipping, got the invoice in an email from xdalys thanking me for my order, all good. Until I got another email earlier today telling me there was an error and the gearbox was meant to be 1100 EUR + shipping!!! Asked me if I wanted them to cancel the order or pay up. I expect the same so for that inverter!

[sfk]

Too good to be true

[TinkerTan]

I'm curious for a ball park figure of what that would cost, nothing you have to stick to if anything goes ahead, just something to put in my mind.

And so we're clear, this would enable a stock married xfer case to hook up directly to the GS450H box?

I have since received my first GS450h gearbox/L110. This weekend I removed the tail housing to find that it will not be as simple as I hoped, to design and machine an adapter from the GS450h transmission. It seems that the output planetary differential/gear assembly is housed in the rear housing, as well as the parking brake. More complicated than just an output shaft and bearing. Based on photos of the LS600h transmissions/L110F available for sale without the AWD transfer case, the primary difference between the two is the tail housing. The LS600h gearbox with its tail housing has a flange and 20- something spline output shaft for use with a transfer case.
I will need to get my hands on a LS600h transmission to compare differences, and whether the tail housing is directly compatible with the RWD/L110/GS450h. I haven't seen any tail housings available for sale, so the LS600 transmission may continue to be the best bet for 4WD for some time to come, though much more rare than GS450.
It would be possible to machine a new adapter to house the parking brake lever, output bearing output shaft speed sensor etc... but sorry folks, custom machined adapter price for GS450 trans wouldn't be competitive and it looks like the LS600h transmission is the cheapest route to get 4WD, solely due to the tail housing. The LS gearbox will be my new target for developing an adapter, unless we're lucky and it turns out that the LS tail housing is directly compatible with Toyota/Lexus transfer cases.
If the input shaft is compatible with a 21 or 23 spline shaft and only a custom flange is needed, a sale price within a couple hundred USD at current 7075 Al prices should be achievable, depending on batch size.
Will post any updates.

[SuperV8]

According to this:
https://www.awdwiki.com/en/daihatsu/
The Fourtrak has either part time 4wd system (which is without centre differential)
or
Full time 4wd system(WITH centre differential) which locks the centre diff in Low range.

Which is yours? Commercial or Passenger variant?

[Greenbeast]

Passenger, it has part time 4wd

[Bratitude]

During the EV course last August, there was a discussion about a late 90's Toyota Landcruiser transfer case bolting/connecting directly onto the GS450H gearbox, same pattern. Did some looking but never confirmed that in the end.

Is there any more info on this? Who mentioned this? any leads would be very helpful

Dose any one have photos of a gs450h with the tail section removed?

*edit*
Looking up 95-98 land cruiser transfer cases, eBay postings state the following “ LAND CRUISER 95 from 1/95
LAND CRUISER 96-97
LAND CRUISER 98 4.5L (1FZFE engine, 6 cylinder)
LEXUS LX450 96-98”

[cajunfj40]

Hello,

I've been following the GS450h/LS600h transmission repurposing threads for quite a while. I've also been doing a bunch of note-taking from various places like Pirate 4x4, IH8MUD, etc. for gearing, etc.

Here's a bit of a data-dump on what I've dug up on transfer case compatibility:

For the LS600h L110F transmission with AWD transfer case attached, the transfer case incorporates a Torsen center diff offering 40/60 F/R torque split. Rear output shaft is centered, inline with transmission. Front output shaft is offset to the left side, with a drop. Transmission without the transfer case has 19 splines, 34.5mm output shaft. Shaft seal between transmission and transfer case has OD of 62mm, riding on transfer case input shaft OD of 48mm. Transfer case has "female" input shaft - transmission shaft slides into it.

Toyota JF1A Part-Time (2WD Hi/4WD Lock Hi/4WD Lock Lo) PN 36100-34161 from 2007-2010 Tundra with 4.6L/4.7L V8. and JF3A Full Time Multi-Mode (2WD Hi/AWD Torsen (30/70 F/R Torque Split) Hi/4WD Lock Hi/4WD Lock Lo) PN 36100-34181 from 2008-2010 Sequoia. Both have 2.62:1 low range, and the same 19 spline 34.5mm shaft connection. Shaft seal between transmission and transfer case has OD of 66mm, riding on shaft OD of 51mm. Rear output is inline with transmission, straight back. Front output is offset to left side, with a drop.

These two transfer cases were behind the A750F-A760H/F automatic transmissions. An adapter plate would be needed to match the bolt patterns up, but the shafts are compatible. Might need to mill down either the transmission rear housing face or the transfer case front housing face to make up for thickness of the adapter, if there's not enough spline engagement. I think they may both be electronically controlled, so some code work may be needed.

NOTE: PN 36100-34171 Tundra, 36100-34191 Sequoia behind the AB60F transmission and 5.7L 3URFE/3URFBE engines have a 22 spline shaft, so not compatible. JF2A Full Time (AWD Torsen Hi/4WD Lock Hi/4WD Lock Lo) from Land Cruiser 200 series and Lexus LX570 are behind the 5.7 V8, probably have the 22 spline shaft too. Note that this shaft actually has only 19 full splines, 3 are "missing", leaving 3 bigger gaps on the shaft.

Later years (through 2014 or 2015?) may also fit, not sure. I haven't dug up the part numbers.

I've not been able to confirm if the older split-case 19 spline FJ60/FJ80/FZJ80/100 series Land Cruiser transfer cases fit. It "looks like it does", but I've not found a picture/thread where someone slipped the input shaft from a JF1A/JF3A over the output shaft of the earlier transmissions. There's some threads saying that at least earlier (up to 2007?) A750F transmissions have a compatible output shaft with the older split-case transfer cases - with some fiddling around.

For the GS450h L110F transmission, it is "like a conventional RWD automatic", so it has a drive flange sticking out the end. Needs a divorced transfer case and a short shaft connecting to it.

Bratitude already mentioned that the Suzuki Samurai had a divorced part-time (2WD Hi/4WD Lock Hi/4WD Lock Lo) transfer case with 1.409:1 Hi, 2.268 Low gear ratios, with driveshaft flanges on the input and both output shafts. Available aftermarket gearsets are 1.578/4.16, 1.634/4.90, 1.691/6.50 Hi/Lo. Both front and rear outputs are inline with each other, and are offset to the right side with a drop. There's also the older Nissan transfer cases they also mentioned, but I've no gearing info on them - they're not that available where I look around.

The Land Rover LT230 full-time (AWD Hi, AWD Lo, 4WD Hi Lock, 4WD Lo Lock) transfer case has both output shafts inline with each other, offset to the right, with a drop. It has a hollow input gear and has a PTO port on the back, so it's possible to drive it from the rear with some work.
Early Range Rover Hi 1, Lo 3.32
V8 Defender 110 and Range Rover 300 Tdi Hi 1.41, Lo 3.32
V8 Defender 90 and Discovery Hi 1.22, Lo 3.32
2.5L Defender 90/110 Hi 1.67, Lo 3.32
Ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk offers replacement Hi ranges of 1.003, 1.1, 1.222, 1.301, 1.41, 1.667
They also offer an automatic torque biasing center diff replacement that can still be locked.
https://ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/di ... -diff.html
Quaife also offers an ATB center diff replacement, at about double the cost of Ashcroft.
Note that some years of the Discovery in the US had LT230 transfer cases without the diff lock mechanism, but it can be retrofitted. Some years had the mechanism, but not the linkage.

One of the automatic transmissions in front of the LT230 was a ZF box, and it used a coupler, or "spud" shaft, which is like $105. Much like many adapters do. Take that shaft and adapt it to whatever output shaft pattern (like the LS600h one, or a Leaf motor) you need. You'll need a plate-tube-plate type mounting adapter to have room for the "spud shaft". You could conceivably make a divorced adapter setup this way for the GS450h transmission, too.

Ok, wall of text mode off. There really needs to be a Smiley with a book on it, so I can mark these. :-/

[nkiernan]

Fantastic information Cajunfj40, cheers for taking the time to put it all together and share

[Bratitude]

Some more info on the LF1A transfer case
https://toyota-club.net/files/faq/20-02 ... wd_eng.htm



Found a 2008-2016 ls600h without the transfer case on eBay in the us. https://www.ebay.com/itm/133810595802?_ul=CA
Some photos from the posting

[montyjohn]

I have since received my first GS450h gearbox/L110. This weekend I removed the tail housing to find that it will not be as simple as I hoped, to design and machine an adapter from the GS450h transmission. It seems that the output planetary differential/gear assembly is housed in the rear housing, as well as the parking brake. More complicated than just an output shaft and bearing.

I don't suppose you have any photos of the GS450H without the tail piece on?

[Solition1DC]

We retained transfercase and attached a GS450h gearbox to it.
Removed OE gearbox shaft that mates to transfercase, you'll need to operate on the gearbox.

Next we modified the GS450h driveshaft with rubber mount.

Just after the rubber end, where here is meat to the drive shaft, the OE splined end was welded in by a driveshaft shop to make sure the part is balanced.

GS450H GEARBOX > Rubber Mount > Bolted to driveshaft > ||| Driveshaft was cut + OE Gearbox Shaft was cut and Welded ||| > OE Gearbox driveshaft >> Insert into Transfercase