Tesla Charger Support Thread

[jokeitch]

I have a dumb question, coming over from the diyEV forums since the links seem to suggest to move over here...
could control over these chargers allow some form of fast charging on a diy ev project? Like, stack four of these guys and get a cool 40kw
my objective being the ability to use chademo stations to get those sweet 0-80% in 30 minutes charge times, specifically with chevy volt modules. I'd be operating at the normal Volt cell voltage of 365v.

not sure if volt cells just won't take that, or if these tesla chargers can't really be "stacked" in the way i'm hoping they can

using tesla superchargers for diy conversions will likely never be a thing, but chademo's all over the place now, much more feasible

[Kevin Sharpe]

Like, stack four of these guys and get a cool 40kw

You can stack any number of Tesla Gen 2 Chargers in parallel and connect them to a suitable AC power source. Indeed, the Tesla Supercharger uses 12 chargers wired in parallel. I don't know what limitations (if any) Tom's software has but if it doesn't support more than two chargers today then the feature can be added to the software.

my objective being the ability to use chademo stations to get those sweet 0-80% in 30 minutes charge times,

CHAdeMO bypasses the Tesla charger and simply connects DC from the rapid charger direct to the battery via a couple of contactors. New Electric have recently released a CHAdeMO controller that can interface to any CAN based BMS. Damien is currently installing this in Der Panzer and we hope to have some updates after the Fully Charged Show

[jokeitch]

I wonder, could the same thing could be adapted for use with CCS chargers? Or is that a much steeper hill to climb than chademo
reason i ask is because, in the usa at least, chademo is sort of dying out, ccs is getting far more support from manufacturers

[Kevin Sharpe]

I wonder, could the same thing could be adapted for use with CCS chargers? Or is that a much steeper hill to climb than chademo

CCS is on the development list but it's a lot more complex than CHAdeMO. I suspect you'll see it supported first on one of the commercial BMS's.

[DrJeff]

I can get 1 module charging (either module 1, 2, or 3 - all charge correctly independently). When I try to activate any more than 1 module, the charging does not start (modules enable and activate, but fail and reset a second later). I'm charging a LiFePO4 pack at 370v. I've tested multiple current levels, 110v and 240v, EVSE, autoenabled, different target voltages, different delays, module combos... everything. The software sends just the 'modulelimcur' (AC current request) and 'voltset' (target voltage) to each module.

My config...
parameters.autoEnableCharger = 0; // 0 = disable auto start, EVSE control (proximity/pilot), 1 = enable
parameters.canControl = 0; //0 disabled can control, 0=off, 1=master, 2=remote, 3=slave (incoming CAN)
parameters.dcdcsetpoint = 14000; //voltage setpoint for dcdc in mv
// Settings for the TesLorean testing
parameters.currReq = (10 * 1500); //max input limit per module (threephase), or for whole charger (singlephase) 1500 = 1A
parameters.enabledChargers = 1; // modules enabled, can be module, 1, 2, 3, or 123, or 13, 23
parameters.voltSet = 42000; //1 = 0.01V
parameters.tVolt = 42500; //1 = 0.01V
parameters.phaseconfig = Singlephase; //AC input configuration
parameters.type = 1; //Socket type1 or 2

A successful charger start-up looks like... (currReq = 10A, enabledChargers = 1)
1) LED on module comes on
2) 4+ second delay
3) DC current reported stays < 0.1v
3) click from module
4) DC Current reported (( dccur[x] * 0.000839233 )) rises to 0.5 (at 5A AC in/module)

A unsuccessful charger start-up looks like...(currReq = 20A, enabledChargers = 12)
1) LED on module comes on
2) 4+ second delay
3) DC current reported stays < 0.1v
3) click from module
4) DC current reported stays < 0.1v
5) <1 second delay
6) Small LED on modules flashes (probably fault indicator)
7) Modules reset (restarting at 1)

BTW : I have two chargers (different versions) and two Gen2 charger boards. Issues are exactly the same irrespective of the chargers or boards.

So the question becomes, what could the modules be faulting on (and in particular a fault that only occurs when more than 1 module is activated)?
Some ideas...
- It's a LiFePO4 vs Li-ion issue?
- Some odd Singlephase issue, where pulling X amps by two modules trips some internal setting, but 1 module doesn't

Any ideas anyone?

Jeff

[Jack Bauer]

Jeff could you do a can capture of both situations on the internal can network and send to me. There is a 3 pin header on the top left of the logic board to give access to internal can.

[DrJeff]

Jeff could you do a can capture of both situations on the internal can network and send to me. There is a 3 pin header on the top left of the logic board to give access to internal can.

I'll get this done. I've captured from the internal pics before. My EVTV CANDue has died (becoming a habit), but I did try with my CANSender module. It looks like it blasted out some messages when the charging started. I'll need to play with it a bit to get a good capture.

Thanks
Jeff

[DrJeff]

A capture and a new symptom in the process...

I attached a CAN receiver to the pins on Damien's charger controller. I was able to capture some CAN frames while activating 1 module for charging. The new symptom is that the 1 module does not start charging (???). It exhibits the symptoms that I saw when attempting to initiation 2 modules charging. Disconnecting the CAN receiver from Damien's controller and module 1 begins charging as normal.

Observation : Somehow connecting the CAN received to the internal CAN network is "disturbing" the internal can and preventing the 1 module from initiating charging. I've attached the CAN frames observed by the attached CAN receiver. (Note: I had 0, 1 and 2 120 Ohm on the CAN lines - made no difference to the observation).

Additional testing. 1) Hook up oscilloscope to the internal CAN to observe the waveform 2) hook up a different CAN receiver (different model altogether) and catch some frames.

[Jack Bauer]

Will have a look when I get home. Thanks Jeff.

[DrJeff]

More data...

The oscilloscope confirmed the CAN on the internal charger network, but I was unable to read any CAN (possibly some odd incompatibility between my CAN reader and the internal network - it reads other CAN sources fine, just not this one). I read frames yesterday - but now I suspect that the CAN receiver was toast - when I disconnected it 'charging on one module worked', when connected 'charging on one module didn't work'. I tried getting ESP32CanDue running from EVTV today, but can't yet get all of the source libraries to reference correctly.

Also attached is a log of some tests (Output from the Gen2TeslaCharger software).

One possible line of inquiry might be to do with temperature limited current. It was 30C in the garage today. I checked all prior logs and they report "Temp Cur Lim 15 X Y" where X and Y are Celsius temp readings. "Temp Cur Lim" (the 15) is reported by the modules - value reported is multiplied by 0.234375 (to get 15). I'm guessing that 15 means that the modules are NOT curtailed by the temperature - even at 30C ambient.

[DrJeff]

I finally got two CAN logs, 1 module charging and 2 modules failing to charge I tried 3 different CAN transceivers before I got it working - conclusion CAN is quirky.

Two logs attached...
1) mod1 good run 2.txt [one module activated and charging successfully from 240v EVSE, current set at 10amps]
2) mod12 fail run.txt [two modules activated, light up, ~5 seconds click and reset, 240v EVSE and current set at 20amps. Modules reset 3-4 times during the log]

Both logs start with the 'start charging' command to the modules (about ~4-5 seconds before actual charging starts).

Hopefully this will provide some clues about the source of the module resets?

Key observation : I can command any one of the three modules to charge on their own and it works. When every I command two modules I get a reset. I also swapped the 12v power source for the modules to a unit that could provide up to 30amps (just in case the modules were 12v amp limited) - but no change in operation.

Thanks
Jeff

[Jack Bauer]

Jeff have you measured the can resistance?

[DrJeff]

Jeff have you measured the can resistance?

Umm, not sure what you mean? The CAN transceiver didn't apply any additional resistance to the lines (60 Ohm or 120 Ohm), I just connected the internal CAN network pins on the control board to my transceiver.

Jeff

[Jack Bauer]

What I mean is if you power off everything and measure resistance between canh and canl on the internal network what do you read? Just trying to gauge if Tesla have done something weird.

[DrJeff]

What I mean is if you power off everything and measure resistance between canh and canl on the internal network what do you read? Just trying to gauge if Tesla have done something weird.

Easy to do, but it'll have to wait until I'm back in the US. Next three weeks I'm working in Australia.

I saw some reports of the charger being sensitive to 'containment' issues - i.e. it checks for the potential for high voltage leakage. I'm guessing this means that it's checking with respect to a GND level. Are there any special setups to be aware of to make sure the containment issue doesn't pop up?

I have done some analysis of the CAN frames from the 1 module good charge and 2 modules failed charge, just to see how they might be different and how the frames from the software look like.

Analysis : Shows the frame IDs from the successful 1 module run, and the frame IDs from the failed 2 module run
Current : Some calculations looking at the current request data set to the modules (US and UK differ here in that current request is divided across 3 modules whether they are active or not - in the US code)
Mod1 successful log : Module 1 activated and charging successfully
Mod12 failed charge log : Modules 1 and 2 activated, but never get to charging successfully

I don't see anything obvious from the logs, but I think I've spotted the period during which the charger tries or prepares to start and then fails. I highlighted the start and end of a charge start period, and also highlighted with red text some messages that look a little odd.

There's no obvious "the module checked something and is not going to fail message". Interestingly some frames that are specific to the fail log are produced all through the test, even before the 'start charging' command is issued. This seems odd because how would the charger know that it is going to be requested to enable two modules? Some more detailed logging also capturing the logs on the controller serial might be in order to understand exactly what's happening when the two module startup is requested.

Jeff

[DrJeff]

Due to way too many hours spent on airplanes today (about 22hrs in total) I did lots of examining and reasoning about how the charger internal CAN traffic scheme might be set up. The scheme (built up from examining the logs and internals of the Gen2Tesla charger software from Damien and Tom DeBree) seems to make sense, but still lots of questions, especially on 0x717 and the 0x537/9/B as they look like they are using byte D0 to say what data they are reporting on. For 0x717 there are differences in the data between the successful and unsuccessful charging logs. A bit more digging might reveal what data the modules are reporting (when successfully charging).

I also can't think of any reason why there would be a burst of 6 frames (0x32? through 0x37?) for each of the 3 modules. Maybe the modules themselves have six of something internally and the 6 frames for each module is a report on their status? These codes report whether the charge is successful or not. So probably just a heatbeat signal (but 6 per module?)

I'm digging through the data to see if I can find anything that occurs or is concurrent with the charger failure to start charging with 2 modules enabled. There are some codes 0x507/9/B and 0x5E7/9/B that appear to occur when the charger is failing or resetting. Both frame sets look to be carrying data. The 0x5E? set reports the same data for all modules and the same data in every report. The 0x50? data also carries data, and the values there do change from report to report.

[rx7r3ev]

I just got the board for the Tesla 2nd Gen Charger and have few setup questions:

1) I'm in the US and have 240 volts (2 phase source). For setting 5 - Phase Wiring, is 2 the proper setting?
Would this mean that I can parallel one (120v) AC source to two modules and the other (120v) AC source to the remaining single module?

2) On the menu of the controller which I have not found in the PDF manual, it has option for 't - termination voltage'.
What's the difference with this and the option '6 - DC Charge Voltage'?

3) This is not really a setup question (a newbie here), what way or technique you guys use to turn on the Charger automatically when you plug in the J1772? Do you use device like the AVC2? But that will have redundant connections to the pilot and proximity lines?

Thanks!

[Jack Bauer]

Phase wiring 2 is correct for US 240v power. You will want to run all 3 modules in parallel with a hot to each AC input terminal.

Termination voltage is a feature I added for myself as I don't use a BMS for charge termination. Set it to the finish charge voltage of your pack and it will cuttoff charging once it hits this voltage for 10 seconds. If you don't will to use it just set it a voltage the pack will never reach. e.g. 500v for a 400v pack

The logic board handles J1772 on board. reference the wiring diagrams and manual pdf for details.

[tom91]

Set phase wiring to : 1 for single phase or split phase (240Vac) set to 2 for 3 phase wiring (L1 L2 L3 and N used).

Wire the charger to be constant live or ignition live. This unfortunate draws quite some current.

I made a botch fix for this, create a circuit that takes the CP line and then switches a N mosfet to switch an P channel mosfet to power up the charger. It works a treat.

[Jack Bauer]

Ah my mistake:)

[joromy]

Hi, just got my charger set up for testing.

And can't get the AMP up over 12AAC (7.5ADC) total for all modules.
Have read all post on the old forum, and are of the impression that you could set any AMP in the setting, because the EVSE will have the last word?
Have set the menu "7" to 5, 10, 15, 32, and 40A, no change....

EVSE set to 24AAC, Connected to one phase 230V 32A
DC contactor on OUT1 (A6)
Simp BMS on IN1 (A3)
Water cooling.
Battery pack 240VDC

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMHzbXpNVao

Settings Menu
1 - Auto Enable : ON
2 - Modules Enabled : 123
3 - Can Mode : Master
4 - Port Type : 2
5 - Phase Wiring : 1
6 - DC Charge Voltage : 250V
7 - AC Current Limit : 5A
8 - CAN0 Speed : 500
9 - CAN1 Speed : 500
a - Can Debug : OFF
b - EVSE Debug : ON
t - termination voltage : 300V
q - To Quit Menu

Proximity Status : Connected AC limit : 23400 /Cable Limit: 32000 /Module Cur Request: 3333 /DC total Cur:0.09 /DC Setpoint:250 /DC tVolt:300 /DC driven AC Cur Lim: 61123
507511 State: 1 Phases : 0 Modules Avtive : 3 ON D1 H
Phase 1 Feebback // AC present: 1 AC volt: 236 AC cur: 0.73 DC volt: 266 DC cur: 0.09 Inlet Targ: 60 Temp Lim Cur: 15 25 17 EN:1 Flt:0 Stat:1001101
Phase 2 Feebback // AC present: 1 AC volt: 235 AC cur: 0.73 DC volt: 262 DC cur: 0.01 Inlet Targ: 60 Temp Lim Cur: 15 25 16 EN:1 Flt:0 Stat:1001101
Phase 3 Feebback // AC present: 1 AC volt: 234 AC cur: 0.73 DC volt: 266 DC cur: 0.03 Inlet Targ: 60 Temp Lim Cur: 15 25 17 EN:1 Flt:0 Stat:1001111

[Jack Bauer]

You have set a max charging voltage to 250v yet the charger is reading 260v hence why you can't command more current. As far is the charger is concerned your pack is charged.

[joromy]

Aha got it Tanks, a little confusing because of the "termination voltage"

[joromy]

Did a second test today. same problem no more than 12AAC, Module Cur Request will not go over 3900??

Same setup, battery pack is 303VDC (rise 1V while charging)
6 - DC Charge Voltage : 330V
7 - AC Current Limit : 20A
t - termination voltage : 345V

Module Cur Request: 3333 when I set lim 10A
Module Cur Request: 3900 when I set lim 20A ??
EVSE is set to 24A, but is reported by the charger as 23400mA

The AC current reported on the EVSE is not stable jumping from 7-12.8AAC

Will try with another charger and controller, to see if there is some change.
BTW I'm using your beta software, could that be a problem?

[joromy]

It's working:
I now get 23.8AAC reported from the EVSE!!!!
The manual says "Set the CAN mode to Master by sending '31'"
It should be 30 off. (if you have single charger)

But I still get some jumping down to 14AAC every few seconds, is that normal?