Outlander rear motor and inverter

[LRBen]

Here is my github repo on the controller I made for it, hardware and software. I wouldn't recommend using it though, teensy 3.6s are hard to find and there are some pretty glaring issues in the hardware design to say the least. It was originally designed for controlling the Gen 2 prius open inverter board and repurposed once in the car. But it is a very simple bare bones approach on the software side which might be helpful.

https://github.com/SomersetEV/MG-F-E-VCU

[evMacGyver]

Has anyone looked igbt module model and main capacitor voltage? 400v was verified to work, now looking HV limitations if inverter could do 108s somehow, not needed to get full 4.2v cell voltage - 4.1v (443v) would be nice

I did some research, main capacitor is 700uF 450V and IGBT module is MBB600TV6A, which is 650V 600A. It sounds to me that there could be potential to deliver more than 70kW with good cooling.

What do you think about HW voltage limit? How much voltage spikes IGBT switching makes on DC side? Spikes might depend on the motor, battery and all wiring from and to inverter. For SW side there could be over voltage protection.

[Romale]

I did some research, main capacitor is 700uF 450V and IGBT module is MBB600TV6A, which is 650V 600A. It sounds to me that there could be potential to deliver more than 70kW with good cooling.

in the nissan leaf gen 2 inverter, there are also power IGBT modules for 600 volts and 600 amps. at the same time, this inverter is capable of 150 kW!!
this means that the outlander inverter will also be able to with good cooling

[Romale]

Really nice thanks

By low inertia means low impedance wiring?
I see from rear motor it uses 10 pole resolver ergo it seems to be 10 pole PMSM motor. Yes?

where did you get this information? the other day I successfully launched my outlander rear motor, when I tried to build it by specifying 5 pairs of poles, nothing worked! I opened the lid and saw a very similar resolver to the one in the Nissan leaf engine. and it has exactly the same 4 pairs of poles. I specified 4 pairs of rotor and 4 pairs of resolver in the settings and everything worked perfectly!

[arber333]

where did you get this information? the other day I successfully launched my outlander rear motor, when I tried to build it by specifying 5 pairs of poles, nothing worked! I opened the lid and saw a very similar resolver to the one in the Nissan leaf engine. and it has exactly the same 4 pairs of poles. I specified 4 pairs of rotor and 4 pairs of resolver in the settings and everything worked perfectly!

Hm... this was based on this test
viewtopic.php?p=9197#p9197

I specificaly entered 5 pole pairs for motor and 5 pole pairs for resolver. Of course resolver pole ratio needs to be 1:1 at least for automotive design...
Did you use rear motor or one of the front ones?

[Romale]

Hm... this was based on this test
viewtopic.php?p=9197#p9197

I specificaly entered 5 pole pairs for motor and 5 pole pairs for resolver. Of course resolver pole ratio needs to be 1:1 at least for automotive design...
Did you use rear motor or one of the front ones?

I used exactly the rear motor. and his resolver is guaranteed to have 4 pairs of poles. this can be seen by its design (4 petals), also if you turn on the angle graph and slowly rotate the rotor, it will give 4 changes in one revolution. the exact poles of the rotor are not yet clear, but I will open my motor and check with a third-party magnet later. the first time I set up the syncofs for 4 pairs of poles of the resolver and 4 pairs of poles of the rotor. later I tried to change the setting to 5. if you change the setting of the poles of the motor, it works at any value, but if I made 5 pairs of poles resolver, the motor shakes and does not work.

[Romale]

Hm... this was based on this test
viewtopic.php?p=9197#p9197

I specificaly entered 5 pole pairs for motor and 5 pole pairs for resolver. Of course resolver pole ratio needs to be 1:1 at least for automotive design...
Did you use rear motor or one of the front ones?

I have fulfilled my promise. I disassembled the Outlander's rear motor and counted the pairs of rotor poles using an external magnet. there are 4 of them!!! not 5!
the same applies to his resolver, it has 4 pairs of poles, not 5!

Please convey this information to all interested. in the evening I will try to update the info in the wiki.

[arber333]

I have fulfilled my promise. I disassembled the Outlander's rear motor and counted the pairs of rotor poles using an external magnet. there are 4 of them!!! not 5!
the same applies to his resolver, it has 4 pairs of poles, not 5!

Please convey this information to all interested. in the evening I will try to update the info in the wiki.

That is great thank you! This will be usefull for my backup in case i dont manage to get the motor to work with OEM inverter and my VCU.

[Bratitude]

did a little brief tear down of the rear inverter, as id like to de bulk it and save some weight/space.

[chentron]

Under those mainboards there are some igbt with their classic connectors that can be managed with a classic openinverter setup (gates driver+sensor board) ?
My question may seem strange, but CAN management seems impossible to me at this moment.

did a little brief tear down of the rear inverter, as id like to de bulk it and save some weight/space.

IMG_0536.JPEGIMG_0538.JPEGIMG_0539.JPEGIMG_0541.JPEG

[bigmotherwhale]

Under those mainboards there are some igbt with their classic connectors that can be managed with a classic openinverter setup (gates driver+sensor board) ?
My question may seem strange, but CAN management seems impossible to me at this moment.

Yes this is possible, i planned to do this with a Lebowski board before the CAN protocol was available, you would have to keep the mainboard on the top as it handles the isolated voltages, then you would patch into the gate drivers and current sensors.

[Romale]

Yes this is possible, i planned to do this with a Lebowski board before the CAN protocol was available, you would have to keep the mainboard on the top as it handles the isolated voltages, then you would patch into the gate drivers and current sensors.

do you have a scheme for this? could you draw a pinout of the connectors of these boards? thanks

[chentron]

the great would be that Bratitude will send a photo with all motherboard unmounted, so we can see the naked igbt

did a little brief tear down of the rear inverter, as id like to de bulk it and save some weight/space.

IMG_0536.JPEGIMG_0538.JPEGIMG_0539.JPEGIMG_0541.JPEG

[bigmotherwhale]

do you have a scheme for this? could you draw a pinout of the connectors of these boards? thanks

I dont have the pinouts anymore, but i can tell you that the signals you need are on the white connector.
The black side needs to be plugged in to supply the gate drivers isolated voltage.

[Romale]

the great would be that Bratitude will send a photo with all motherboard unmounted, so we can see the naked igbt

as you can see. the driver power is on the top board. However, I could not identify the main entrances at random.
I also have a desire to saw off the extra part of the case and try to get at least 150 kW from this invertor using the OI v3 board, but the main difficulty is not knowing where the input is.

Is there someone here who knows exactly the purpose of all the pins on this inverter?

[arber333]

IMG_20231118_173320.jpg

IMG_20231118_173127.jpg

as you can see. the driver power is on the top board. However, I could not identify the main entrances at random.
I also have a desire to saw off the extra part of the case and try to get at least 150 kW from this invertor using the OI v3 board, but the main difficulty is not knowing where the input is.

Is there someone here who knows exactly the purpose of all the pins on this inverter?

Hm... would it be possible to simply connect Leaf motor to Outlander rear inverter and connect resolver. Maybe several tries would be required but it seems Leaf resolver is so similar it could work .
You could cut casing and TIG weld alu plate on the end. You would just have to make new glands to connect DC and phase wires.
OEM firmware goes only up to 200Nm but since IGBTs are 600A Leaf motor would drive i think... minimal input and maximal output...
I may try top replace inverter in my Pug when i am done with Mazda. Outlander parts are so plentiful it would be a shame not to use them..

[Romale]

I figured out a bit about the pins on the board.

it remains to find out where the output of information about HIGH volts, temperature and which numbers to give a low sig to open the drivers?

Is anyone familiar with this information?

I'm sure it can easily be connected to a leaf motor or any similar one.

[Romale]

having investigated something by the method of scientific poke (at random) I found out anyway)))

[Leo M]

про полюса 4 на 4 однозначно проверяно. по инверторам купил и передний и задний. давно к ним пррсматривался все руки не доходили. Переделать более чем реально.придут займемся.))

[FFMan]

Hi

new caller to this thread as am working on this combo (Outlander rear motor and inverter) to replace my prius inverter coupled to outlander rear which has died after 1000 miles of use and refuses to resurrect. rather than buying a new prius openinverter board I'm here

I have 2 outlander rear motors (one in the car, not working on prius inverter) and one on the bench. I have the rear inverter and that is powered and spitting out can messages etc. I have the resolver cable to join the motor to the inverter which is handy. I have sample code which all looks fairly straightforward (ha).

What i don't know and doesn't appear to be marked on either end, is which way to connect the motor phases. I have the short motor cable which claims to be the right one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314893460508 but the clamp on one end is wrong so i'm not convinced. The cable can be made to work if i know the phasing.

thanks

[Bigpie]

Giving up on the Prius inverter?

[crasbe]

The cable you have linked is from the Front Motor, therefore the incorrect connector.

The service manual however has a nice schematic and in the lower section it has the pinout of the connectors.
http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/outlander ... C00ENG.pdf

For the actual cable glands, you can use my 3D printed ones: viewtopic.php?t=3563

[FFMan]

The cable you have linked is from the Front Motor, therefore the incorrect connector.

The service manual however has a nice schematic and in the lower section it has the pinout of the connectors.
http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/outlander ... C00ENG.pdf

For the actual cable glands, you can use my 3D printed ones: viewtopic.php?t=3563

thanks - i had come across that diagram, and i see the motor phasing, but is it possible to identify each phase on the inverter and the motor. Obs the central one is fine, but i can't see any marks anywhere that help get the other 2 the right way round ?

[crasbe]

The schematic has U V W with 1 2 3 and the lower pinouts of the connectors has the according 1 2 3 markings. That way you can identify the phases and it says "Harness side" as an identifcation from where to look.

[crasbe]

Oh, I linked the wrong PDF. The one I liked is for the front motor. You need this one:
http://mmc-manuals.ru/manuals/outlander ... C00ENG.pdf

Same idea though.