openinverter forum

arber333 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 6:21 pm

janosch wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 2:10 pm
...

Yes i use two chargers in paralell for 6kW6. I need to use Arduino Due with CAN and i take CP signal in DUE and provide PWM for both chargers so that they think they are alone. CAN bus works with a single command msg and keep alive msg.

Thats wicked. We will investigate that in a bit. Although I did some thinking and even 6.6kW is fairly low for us, with battery pack sizes only increasing from here on. A shame though, I like the unit and it is very compact for what it is.

OK...
I spotted potential problem with Mitsubishi charger/DCDC.
As i was going about regular maintenance on my pug, while car was running i noticed battery was high. I mean 15.2V high!
I went and tested several times and on various points on the car. Battery was still high and it was getting warm if i went for extended drive.

Next, since i have 2 Outlander units in parallel i disconnected one of the DCDCs. Again voltage was 15.2V with remaining one.
I went and took one charger off the car and put it to my test battery with one aux 12V battery connected. It was making 14.7Vdc when i applied Enable pin. Since i had it on desk i went on and tested with PWM on pin 4. It started as soon as voltage was applied to it. Any voltage.

Has anyone seen similar with this type of DCDC? Is there any way to get output down to 14.2Vdc?
Could someone test their unit for output voltage?

tnx

Do you have the B+ voltage sense wire (pin 7) connected directly to the battery plus ?

Had this unit on the bench some months ago; but AFAIR it regulated where it should be (around 14V).

FJ3422 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:12 pm Do you have the B+ voltage sense wire (pin 7) connected directly to the battery plus ?

Had this unit on the bench some months ago; but AFAIR it regulated where it should be (around 14V).

Actually pin 8 is the DCDC power, pin 7 is power for charger. In any case i keep it connected to battery at all times. On ignition i connect 12V to pin 4 and DCDC starts immediately.

Could the higher output voltage result in my battery being 96S?

I hope it is not build so stupid that it just converts HVBAT to 12V in ficed ratio, because then it would not charge the 12V battery properly in Outlander when HVBAT voltage (SOC) is low.

As previus posts have different pin suggestions what to connect where, is there a simple one page verified diagram how to wire the outlander charger/DCDC?

Mine is 14.67v when active at the moment, can't say I've noticed it be much higher.

Bigpie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:14 pm Mine is 14.67v when active at the moment, can't say I've noticed it be much higher.

Was that with 96S battery? My second charger was 14.7V when i tested it.

Yea, 96s, current at ~3.7v

The one I’ve got I don’t have a battery pack but on a variable psu it maintains a constant output voltage of about 14.6 ish between 200 and about 420v

To add to this little data set, mine's spitting out 14.38V on an 80s pack.

I have a question for programming geniuses here .

Inside Outlander DCDCs CAN telegram x0377 there is info about auxvoltage and auxcurrent.
What i would like to achieve is to turn ON DCDC when auxvoltage would sink below 12V and keep it ON untill auxcurrent goes below 5A to indicate battery is fairly charged.
Otherwise DCDC would be OFF when Enable pin would be off or aux current is less than 5A.
That should keep 12V battey happy even if i leave my car parked for extended periods.

I can read telegram x0377 and get auxvoltage and auxcurrent bytes. But i dont know how to latch conditional. After auxvoltage goes under 12V DCDC goes on and in an instant DC voltage is 14.7V. That would cause DCDC to go offline and whole exercise does not make any benefit...
Any ideas?

Could you do perioding polling of the battery voltage? Turn off DC-DC, check voltage and turn back on again? I'm only a copy-paste coder but that would be my noddy answer.

Or just turn it on when the battery sinks below 12V, and switch it off after 30 minutes or so. Don't forget to program a low-voltage limit for the HV-side; you don't want to fully drain your HV-battery by a large 12V load that was accidantly left on over days.

FJ3422 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:21 am Or just turn it on when the battery sinks below 12V, and switch it off after 30 minutes or so. Don't forget to program a low-voltage limit for the HV-side; you don't want to fully drain your HV-battery by a large 12V load that was accidantly left on over days.

I think i will do it like you propose.
1. Enable pin state check (if the car is on we dont need to charge do we?)
2. HV battery voltage check (i allready use that parameter from charger...)
3. Low aux voltage check (i think 12.2V should be safe)
4. keep function alive for 20min and then loop again.

I think i will need to write standalone function as i dont know how CAN bus comms will behave in loop if i use 30min delay.

Does anyone have information about operating temperatures for these chargers?

looking to setup cooling control.

aot93 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:43 am Does anyone have information about operating temperatures for these chargers?

There's a "Technician Training Guide" for the PHEV Outlander floating around online that suggests the normal operating temperature for the EV coolant loop (PDU/RMCU/OBC) is "approximately 50-60C".

There's also a description in that document about an OBC temperature threshold where a request is sent to the PHEV-ECU to enable the cooling pump, and a higher threshold at which charging will stop. It implies these thresholds are managed by the OBC, but I don't think anyone yet knows what the CAN messages for them are or what temperatures they trigger at.

aot93 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:43 am Does anyone have information about operating temperatures for these chargers?

looking to setup cooling control.

I am working exactly the same...
I start coolant pump whenever charger is connected. PP connected signal(DUE pin pulled down) starts the protocol and it works well.
On the other hand i have a problem with 12V battery drain. After a length of time connected to EVSE coolant pump and car internals can drain the battery. My idea is to just start DCDC converter without enable signal. For this i use a DPDT relay and my DUE shield.
https://github.com/arber333/Arduino-Due-CAN-shield
I intend to use the second pin of relay to start cooling fans. Since DCDC will be connected i will at the same time cool off the exchanger.

But now that you reminded me... there are temp reports in telegram 0x389h which I could use to periodicaly switch on the DCDC and coolant fans. This could work! Thanks, i needed a change in my angle...

0x389h Charger status:
B0 = HV-Batteryvoltage (hAB=342V -> 2V/bit)
B1 = AC-Mains voltage (hE2=226V -> 1V/bit)
B2 = DC-charge current (1?) (h5B=9,1A -> 0,1A/bit
B3 = Temperature 1 (starts at -40degC, +1degC/bit)
B4 = Temperature 2 (starts at -40degC, +1degC/bit)
B5 = Statusbyte (CA while charging)
B6 = AC-Mains current (h91=14,5A -> 0,1A/bit)
B7 = DC-charge current (2?) (same as B3, sometimes differs by 0,1A)

Also DCDC is reporting:
0x377h 8bytes DC-DC converter status
B0+B1 = 12V Battery voltage (h04DC=12,45V -> 0,01V/bit)
B2+B3 = 12V Supply current (H53=8,3A -> 0,1A/bit)
B4 = Temperature 1 (starts at -40degC, +1degC/bit)
B5 = Temperature 2 (starts at -40degC, +1degC/bit)
B6 = Temperature 3 (starts at -40degC, +1degC/bit)
B7 = Statusbyte (h20=standby, h21=error, h22=in operation)

Thanks arber. I'm reading all the temps and switch pump and fan on and off based on them.

At the moment I have the pump coming on when charger temp >30deg
I was looking for the normal in use (charging) temperature and max limit before I shut it down.

I'd also be interested to know if they have an overtemp shutdown built in.

From your comments above I've added dc-dc control based on the current reported on x377 B2+3 and voltage, will see how it works out.

aot93 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:13 pm Thanks arber. I'm reading all the temps and switch pump and fan on and off based on them.

At the moment I have the pump coming on when charger temp >30deg
I was looking for the normal in use (charging) temperature and max limit before I shut it down.

I'd also be interested to know if they have an overtemp shutdown built in.

From your comments above I've added dc-dc control based on the current reported on x377 B2+3 and voltage, will see how it works out.

Can you publish the code for your temp control after positive test? I am not that far and i dont like reinventing the wheel.

tnx

I'll send it to you in a PM, it's still changing day by day so not ready wider distribution.

All my code is for Teensy, so not sure how much use it is for you on Due.

aot93 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 6:23 pm I'll send it to you in a PM, it's still changing day by day so not ready wider distribution.

All my code is for Teensy, so not sure how much use it is for you on Due.

Thanks. True code is not for DUE. But it is not so different and i need some ideas now that i am preparing to transplant Outlander rear motor and inverter into Mazda.

I managed to get a response from 0x389 telegram temp byte4 and byte3. Byte4 is the temperature of the primary and it seems byte3 gives the temp on the output stage. I see that shortly when charger is connected byte4 temp rises to 42deg while byte3 remains at 35deg.
Of course i use voltage parameter to sense when to reduce charger at the top....

My code:
// parameters from 0x389
uint8_t voltage = 0;
uint8_t Ctemp = 0;
.....
void loop()
{
CAN_FRAME incoming;

if (Can0.available() > 0) {
Can0.read(incoming);
if(incoming.id==0x389){
voltage=incoming.data.bytes[0] ;
Ctemp=incoming.data.bytes[4] ;
}
}
......
if (digitalRead(Enable_pin) == LOW) { //if car is not ON this time
if (Ctemp > 82) { // if Ctemp is high at 42°C
digitalWrite(DCDC_active,HIGH); // turn off DCDC_active relay
}
else if (Ctemp < 80) { // if Ctemp is low 42°C
{
digitalWrite(DCDC_active,LOW); // turn off DCDC_active relay
}}
........
void handle389frame(CAN_FRAME *frame) //This routine handles CAN interrupts from Address 0x389 CAN frame
{
int voltage;
int Ctemp;

voltage=word(frame->data.bytes[0]*2);
Ctemp=word(frame->data.bytes[4]);

if(debug)printFrame(frame,0); //If DEBUG variable is 1, print the actual message frame with a time stamp showing the time received.
}

EDIT: I tried the code with coolinga fans on my car and they definitely need DCDC to enable when they come online. 42deg is too low so i changed that to higher 65deg and 63deg of the byte4 which seems to be temp of primary transistors. I use Ctemp 105 and 103. When DCDC relay goes online it is DPDT, so one side turns on DCDC and other side triggers the fans relay.

Hello

Did purchase an outlander charger last week to charge my model 3 battery before the pcs controller comes to life...

Did connect hvdc with precharge circuit, and 12v and gnd to chassis.
Also cp and the rest. Dc-dc works but delivers 15.5V when i connect pin4.

Via canbus i get all values correct, but when i connect my 3phase evse cable it starts to flash green.

Then i test with blank 0x285 and 0xB6 on byte 2 at 0x286.

Nothing at all happen. 350vdc at + and - can it be that ive using 3phase evse cable? Did try do set 3,6,9,11kw but no difference

Im out of ideas unfortunally

Are you getting any error messages via canbus? There is a good dbc file around for interpreting the CANBus messages from the charger.

fredd90 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:50 pm
Im out of ideas unfortunally

Well Outlander charger is very specific about start protocol.
1. you need to provide 12v on charger input LV signal pins
2. you can start sending both CAN telegrams 2
3. when you show 12V pwm CP signal of say 25% duty it will pull it down to 6V
4. now when that happens charger will expect AC to show on input AND pull its AC relay in
otherwise it will ignore AC input. What you need is circuit like open EVSE t regulate your AC protocol from the wall side.