2008 Nissan Quest Van with Tesla SDU. [FINISHED]

[Mhs]

Very sad, glad no one got hurt.

[Ev8]

Sorry to read this, makes me reconsider using that style of cell in a future project

[Proton]

Quick question for people more familiar with the settings on the Openinverter board. I used the default parameters posted here:

https://openinverter.org/parameters/view.html?id=15

Is possible that I drew too much power from my 105Ah batteries? and damaged them. Which parameter I should have changed to limit the amps Draw?
Also where I can find for future the explanation of the parameters.





Motor
boost dig 2200.00
fweak Hz 220.00
fconst Hz 800.00
udcnom V 360.00
fslipmin Hz 2.00
fslipmax Hz 6.00
polepairs 2.00
fslipconstmax Hz 6.00
respolepairs 1.00
encmode AB
fmax Hz 600.00
numimp ppr 36.00
dirchrpm rpm 100.00
dirmode Switch
snsm KTY83-110

Inverter
pwmfrq 17.6kHz
pwmpol ACTHIGH
deadtime dig 63.00
ocurlim A 1200.00
il1gain dig/A 1.50
il2gain dig/A 1.50
udcgain dig/V 7.59
udcofs dig 0.00
udclim V 450.00
snshs MBB600

Derating
bmslimhigh % 50.00
bmslimlow % -1.00
udcmin V 250.00
udcmax V 450.00
idcmax A 5000.00
idcmin A -5000.00
tmphsmax °C 85.00
tmpmmax °C 300.00
throtmax % 100.00
throtmin % -100.00
iacmax A 800.00
ifltrise dig 10.00
ifltfall dig 0.00

Charger
chargemode Off
chargecur A 0.00
chargekp dig 80.00
chargeki dig 10.00
chargeflt dig 8.00
chargepwmin % 0.00
chargepwmax % 90.00

Throttle
potmin dig 0.00
potmax dig 4095.00
pot2min dig 4095.00
pot2max dig 4095.00
potmode SingleRegen
throtramp %/10ms 10.00
throtramprpm rpm 20000.00
ampmin % 5.00
slipstart % 40.00

Regen
brknompedal % -50.00
regenramp %/10ms 100.00
brknom % 30.00
brkmax % -30.00
brkcruise % -30.00
brkrampstr Hz 10.00
brkout % -50.00

Automation
idlespeed rpm -100.00
idlethrotlim % 50.00
idlemode Always
speedkp 0.25
speedflt 5.00
cruisemode Off

Contactor Control
udcsw V 330.00
udcswbuck V 540.00
tripmode DcSwOn
Aux PWM
pwmfunc tmpm
pwmgain 100.00
pwmofs dig 0.00

Communication
canspeed 500k
canperiod 100ms

[arber333]

Quick question for people more familiar with the settings on the Openinverter board. I used the default parameters posted here:

https://openinverter.org/parameters/view.html?id=15

Is possible that I drew too much power from my 105Ah batteries? and damaged them. Which parameter I should have changed to limit the amps Draw?
Also where I can find for future the explanation of the parameters.
...........

Derating
........
idcmax A 5000.00
idcmin A -5000.00
........
iacmax A 800.00
........

Parameters are addressed here:
https://openinverter.org/wiki/Parameters

It seems you have set DC current to 5000A
And AC motor current at 800A which is more rational since DC current is reflected by the ramp of AC current. Did you drive a long time at high speed?
What was the DC current displayed on your dash?

I dont really think 100Ah cells are harmed by short spurts of less than 3C. However if it would be prolonged 3C drain that can cause cell damage over time. But that would still be overtime. You would see cell swelling and that sweet smell of acetone. However the mechanical swelling by itself wouldnt cause immediate damage. I am still convinced you had a discharge from one cell casing to another. Which would make sense if cells would swell and rub thin plastic off betwenn them...

[m.art.y]

Really really sad to read about what happened. I myself use cells in aluminium containers wrapped in plastic where whole body of the cell is live. It is not immediately obvious but when they are wired in series and if any of the cell bodies would rub through the insulation and get to touch that would create a short and very likely fire. When I was assembling my battery pack I was in no way confident that the plastic wrappings of the cells were enough and I did not want to allow them to touch. So I meticulously spaced them out with extra insulating material. As Arber mentioned even if the insulating wrap looks intact they could just arc at the tops or bottoms where insulating wrap ends and if two cells end up next to each other that have hundreds of volts between them..

[Proton]

I had few short accelerations no more that 5 seconds.
More plausible is that the cases touched. I guess the need to be isolated. I have in the house a battery for my solar system and never had issues, so did not think that that could be and issue here. live and learn.

[johu]

Like marty says it depends also on the arrangement. If you've only got a single row of batteries you may get away with it as 3V are not going to arc anywhere. If you have two rows next to each other maybe you have 100V between neighbouring cells. Plus in the car you have vibration.

After this experience you might want to add isolation between the cells of your house battery as well....

[arber333]

I had few short accelerations no more that 5 seconds.
More plausible is that the cases touched. I guess the need to be isolated. I have in the house a battery for my solar system and never had issues, so did not think that that could be and issue here. live and learn.

Ufff... you use liion battery in a house assembled without separators? Do you use metal case for that?
I would advise you revisit your house battery and put some spacers in between cells that are on different potential. Material like polycarbonat, pv plastic or black rubber is good. But let it come 5mm higher than battery case so you dont get shootrough
Cells in parallel are ok...

[Proton]

Ufff... you use liion battery in a house assembled without separators?

These were LiFePo4. I chose them over LiIon because they do not catch on fire.

[EV_Builder]

These were LiFePo4. I chose them over LiIon because they do not catch on fire.

That's what puzzled me the most about this.
You had some short some where, some how... with NMC this would have gone worse for sure...

[Proton]

That's what puzzled me the most about this.
You had some short some where, some how... with NMC this would have gone worse for sure...

they had plywood on top and a bunch of balancing cables for BMS. 112 small cables. If they caught on fire they all shorted out setting on fire the wood on top and all plastic around.
lesson learned:
1. no wood box
2. be careful how you route the BMS cables.
3. leave space between batteries and put some separation material between the batteries.

In my case I wanted to make them fit in that space.

***** And I want to mention THE BATTERIES DID NOT BURN. but they got destroyed.

[johu]

***** And I want to mention THE BATTERIES DID NOT BURN. but they got destroyed.

Oh wow. Well that's good in the bad that the LFP claim of "does (hardly ever) not burn" remains.

Maybe lesson 4: have a fire extinguisher. Good enough for a wood & plastic fire

[arber333]

Oh wow. Well that's good in the bad that the LFP claim of "does (hardly ever) not burn" remains.

Maybe lesson 4: have a fire extinguisher. Good enough for a wood & plastic fire

Well that brings me to remember old times when we found some sort of "liquid in a tube" fire extinguishers which were made for kitchens.
I will try to find a link to that...

[Proton]

Oh wow. Well that's good in the bad that the LFP claim of "does (hardly ever) not burn" remains

Just needed some separation between them.

[Sector7e]

I was thinking about integrating automatic fire extinguisher like this into my battery box: https://www.amazon.com/Ougist-Automatic ... 9hdGY&th=1

[tom91]

I was thinking about integrating automatic fire extinguisher like this into my battery box: https://www.amazon.com/Ougist-Automatic ... 9hdGY&th=1

You ever heard of lithium fires, please look at the specific extinguishers for it. "Extinguisher" is the wrong term as lithium is self fueling and oxidizing so can burn on its own you are rather cooling and suppressing the effects of thermal run away to limit damage your are not putting it out.

[arber333]

You ever heard of lithium fires, please look at the specific extinguishers for it. "Extinguisher" is the wrong term as lithium is self fueling and oxidizing so can burn on its own you are rather cooling and suppressing the effects of thermal run away to limit damage your are not putting it out.

I like the idea of small underhood fire extinguisher. Majority car fires happen because of fires on 12V aux system. Yes any car is susectible. Some ecological reason or other that prompted use of organic isolation could overtime cause fire in tightly bundled cable harness... Then your best bet to extinguish it would be twofold:
1. Use of automatic fire extinguisher underhood and
2. propperly designed fuse wich "should" blow in case of overload.
No mention of Li fires here because with that you need monstrous supply of water to cool down the process.

Noticed i use should in the sentence... not in all cases. Whenever overload shouild happen from one wire towards GND then fuse will blow. However if an overload should happen ON the wire towards another supply wire the fuse will not blow immediatelčy because it wont sense any load. This can happen because of isolation faults.
To fight theese i recommend installation of 2.5mm2 ground wire in each wire bundle. Whenever a fire would happen supply wires would touch GND line and fuse will most definitely blow. This is generaly used in solar DC wiring because of wire length between fused parts.

[muehlpower]

You ever heard of lithium fires, please look at the specific extinguishers for it. "Extinguisher" is the wrong term as lithium is self fueling and oxidizing so can burn on its own you are rather cooling and suppressing the effects of thermal run away to limit damage your are not putting it out.

Good fuse and a fire extinguisher are a good idea for any car. However, to keep a lithium fire under control requires cooling. I did the math and came to the conclusion that to destroy the energy of an 80kWh battery you need about 2000L of water. Temperature rise 35°K , c=4,2kJ/Kg/K. An additional 2 tons of weight is unrealistic, but not a problem for the fire department or the domestic tap if there is a possibility of getting the water into the battery.

[Proton]

https://www.iaai.com/vehicledetail/PS~3 ... S~12072023

Found another one same year. Learned how to bid online.
on mine the front windshield was cracked and had one headlight broke. if I add all that and few other things I had to fix on mine, this comes almost free.
Now I will take it slower and anyway I do not have batteries. I have to figure out that too.

[rstevens81]

did you win as its not viewable any more... do you have the bmw 330e over there as the 12kwhr batteries are relatively cheap (this side of the Atlantic) and its a good starter battery

[Proton]

I placed an auto pre-bid of $475. I won the pre-bid and when the bidding started I won the car automatically because the company that was selling the car needed to get out of this car only $375 I think
I did not know this and I paid $100 more. Next time I know and put a lower pre-bid.
the price there is after all taxes and shipping. Shipping to my house is $112.

[Proton]

I guess they only charged me $375. It shows my max Auto-bid there. I think the "reserve" was met at $375 and there it stooped since nobody else outbid me.
They let you get in and see the cars every Wednesday, so I went there 2 weeks ago and saw the car. just to make sure.

[johu]

One thread, two cars
Nice that you're going at it again. Will be interesting to see how fast you move on the second attempt of the same car

[Proton]

I will take it slower. I want to decide on the batteries first and test the battery boxes on the old car. then I want to balance the weight and put some in the front.
I need to rearrange the some stuff in the front and probably the charger needs to go under the car in the back somewhere.
It is all bout money to buy batteries now.
I just finished the in-ground greenhouse and need to plant more food in the greenhouse. I neglected my garden past 6 months.

[Proton]

One thread, two cars
Nice that you're going at it again. Will be interesting to see how fast you move on the second attempt of the same car

To answer your question directly, i can get to where I was in about a week and a half max.
I just have to get the gas motor out which might take me about 2 days and ușe the mount from the other car. CV axles are already made.
Most of the time on the build was research. Now I already have all the parts and knowledge(up to this point)
What will take time is to rearrange the front and find the best way to install the batteries, and that after I figure out the battery choice.
I have to figure out if I need, cooling for batteries, the BMS part. I still have to start playing with your BMS.
Cooling will be very complicated without Tesla batteries which have that already built in.