DVLA Changes on conversion

[andybpowell]

Hope I'm not derailing the thread but what counts as a chassis modification? I was hoping to install batteries beneath my van between the chassis with some form of mounting system fixed to the chassis such as a welded bolt, would this count as a modification? It seems camper vans often use the chassis to underslung water tanks anyway.

basically you do not drill into or weld to the chassis you must repurpose existing fixings though the inspector who looked at mine couldn't see any issue with using rivnuts in existing holes but be careful that you don't block drain holes you don't want it rusting due to trapped water

[andybpowell]

what year is your car ?

1999

[rstevens81]

basically you do not drill into or weld to the chassis you must repurpose existing fixings though the inspector who looked at mine couldn't see any issue with using rivnuts in existing holes but be careful that you don't block drain holes you don't want it rusting due to trapped water

cough new drain holes later

[Aragorn]

Oddly enough in the stuff i've read in the past adding things to a chassis is often fine, but removing stuff is not.

So welding on a bracket for a different engine mounting for example would be acceptable, but cutting part of the chassis out for engine clearance is not. This was a thing even back 20years ago in my days of modifying small ICE hatchbacks, where a common conversion lacked clearance between the alternator and chassis leg. The nice solution was to cut a small area out and box it in, but this constituted a modification to the monocoque, so instead folks would get a big hammer and dent in the leg to create clearance.

See post 5 here for instance:

https://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/threads/8-p ... es.544907/

The big issue is that they are a law unto themselves and seem not only to be inconsistent (with vague and unclear/unpublished rules and guidance), but also double down and refuse to budge when they do get something wrong.

@jacobsmess: Is it body on frame or monocoque?

[Jacobsmess]

@jacobsmess: Is it body on frame or monocoque?

Assuming monocoque means the same as unibody, it's a monocoque.

[FFMan]

1999

pre 2002 the dvla can register as electric as you probably know.

Post 2002 they "can't" change the taxation class

[rstevens81]

Oddly enough in the stuff i've read in the past adding things to a chassis is often fine, but removing stuff is not.

There is a massive double standard on what is allowable as an ice vs an ev, the problen is unless you want to spend at least an extra £1000+ to do a volentry iva we are stuck with very rigid rules... we might not like them but at least now it seems to be consistent for ev conversions dont drill or weld bolt to existing.

[rstevens81]

pre 2002 the dvla can register as electric as you probably know.

Post 2002 they "can't" change the taxation class

April 2001 is the date of the change or Y reg or later cant be changed as yet... this may change next april as previously stated that the fuel type and co2 being linked argument will fall over when ev's will have tax

[Aragorn]

There is a massive double standard on what is allowable as an ice vs an ev, the problen is unless you want to spend at least an extra £1000+ to do a volentry iva we are stuck with very rigid rules... we might not like them but at least now it seems to be consistent for ev conversions dont drill or weld bolt to existing.

Is there though?

The issue seems to be DVLA are classing all electric conversions as "radically altered vehicles", which is a path that also exists for ICE, but most ICE folks do their utmost to stay well clear of, usually by simply not telling the DVLA at all. I suspect you would find if you took your ICE down this path, you'd hit all of the same problems.

Instead, folks with ICE conversions just update the engine number and CC's and avoid the whole rabbit hole of radically altered, even on vehicles which are FAR more modified than many of these EV conversions.

I used to spend a lot of time in Land Rover circles, and it was a similar story there. If you replace the chassis (a common thing on rusty old landrovers) your supposed to tell the DVLA and go thru the "rebuilt vehicle" process. But a lot of folk dont bother becasuse its a headache that no-one needs.


If the DVLA are happy for cars to be driving around with "Diesel" on the V5 but running on Electric as per the OP, then you have to question why bother telling them at all...

[rstevens81]

double standard is there...well if you get an lpg conversion bolt hole will be drilled in your boot thats ok, bolts for batteries no!
The reason we tell them is obvious, (1) you are legally required to tell them, (2) if you were to have a crash things would go south very quickly (3) if pc plod pulls you over on the run up to Christmas and his information say diesel and you make a buzzing sound quite sure you might not see Christmas on the right side of the bars (4) as i said eventually once the zero rate for electric is removed next April, the argument that fuel type cant be changed be because co2 and fuel/taxation class are linked fails(for post 2001) and therefore you will want to be able to drive into low emission zones without paying a diesel tax.

[andybpowell]

I'm not sure about the double standards for lpg conversion there was a set procedure there isn't one for electric and because unlike ICE modifiers we want the tax class and fuel type changed on our V5 we have to declare to the DVLA and deal with people trying to help us with no fixed procedure in place this is where it get's a bit random and they can take you down the rebuilt vehicle or radically modified vecicle route or in my case both
but the point is the modified chassis applies to all vehicle mods we're just the only ones sticking our heads above the parapet

[Aragorn]

I would imagine if the same DVLA inspector saw the holes hacked in the floor for an LPG conversion, they would have the same concerns. The simple fact is no-one asks the DVLA to inspect the holes in the floor after an LPG conversion which was my point. However if holes were hacked in the floor for an LPG conversion, then later for whatever reason it was inspected under the "radically altered" scheme, i would envisage it would indeed be picked up on. The biggest kick in the teeth also wasnt that they picked up on it, it was that they refused to let him rectify it (in the case of the mini recently)!

regards to crashing, thats mostly down to insurance right? The DVLA isnt really getting involved in your car crash. So long as your insurer is happy with the modifications then you should be fine.

As for PC Plod, the OP's car is still showing as diesel, regardless of being notified, so the same issue exists there.

I think even after April, the 2002-2017 cars will still be "stuck" because they will remain in the CO2 based tax banding system. A 2012 LEAF will move from £0 in Band A, to £20 in Band B for instance. Their issue always has been that they wont change the banding, so i cant see why they would move your band "E" diesel to Band B after April...

The point about ULEZ is certainly intriguing, i wonder if the council would have to be approached directly for an exemption to be applied?

[janosch]

...
The point about ULEZ is certainly intriguing, i wonder if the council would have to be approached directly for an exemption to be applied?

Will depend on the council, and they do seem to have whitelists that you can get added to if you make a case for it.
It's on a city to city basis and they might as well say "no" for no good reason in which case you could put petitions forward/get the local papers involved and stuff like that, but you are rolling the dice there.

Worth trying though, don't ask don't get!

[rstevens81]

I think even after April, the 2002-2017 cars will still be "stuck" because they will remain in the CO2 based tax banding system. A 2012 LEAF will move from £0 in Band A, to £20 in Band B for instance. Their issue always has been that they wont change the banding, so i cant see why they would move your band "E" diesel to Band B after April...

I was suggesting that DVLA will not have excuse not to change (your example) from band B diesel to Band B electric or at least not an excuse they haven't used yet.

[FFMan]

Keith Michaels have come back with a quote, on the basis i provide a report on the soundness of the car. They seem happy that this could be on headed paper from the local garage who do the MOT to say in their opinion it's roadworthy. Nothing too onerous.

The NFU have yet to come back with a figure, but are also asking for an engineers report. I have asked them to define engineer.

Both were asking about the power of the motor. As mine is less than the original engine it isn't an issue, but if it was more i suspect there might have been a few more questions.

[snelly]

if the fire brigade would have come out to a converted car to electric the which DVLA will not change to electric on there database.

DVLA will make it a danger to the fire service's as they would not no they were dealing with a EV Fire

[snelly]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/625633

out off date but need to be restarted i think

https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/main ... r-classic-

and motorhomes dvla want you to bolt thing down !!
car/https://climbingvan.co.uk/van-life/recl ... rvan-dvla/

[Alibro]

Hope I'm not derailing the thread but what counts as a chassis modification? I was hoping to install batteries beneath my van between the chassis with some form of mounting system fixed to the chassis such as a welded bolt, would this count as a modification? It seems camper vans often use the chassis to underslung water tanks anyway.

I don't know if it would work in your situation but in my case there were large openings on the front of the chassis rails so I took some angle iron which I drilled and welded nuts to, then fed it through the openings until the nuts lined up with pre existing holes in the chassis rails and used them to bolt in metal frames. This way I didn't alter the chassis in any way but still got everything solidly bolted to it.

On the topic of changing tax class, I don't have a receipt for the purchase of the motor to show when I send in the V70 form.
Any suggestions? Just print off something?

[andybpowell]

Any structural modification either drilling or welding is not allowed by the DVLA though putting rivnuts onto an existing hole should be fine but don't hold me to that

[Alibro]

Any structural modification either drilling or welding is not allowed by the DVLA though putting rivnuts onto an existing hole should be fine but don't hold me to that

I was very careful to avoid any welding or drilling although I did put some M5 rivnuts in holes where the fuel pipes were secured with plastic clips, I used these to secure the HV cable front to rear. My logic is that these could be removed and show no change to the chassis so they should be OK.
Bolting through a pre-existing hole into nuts on the other side of the hole should be even better as they don't need to be drilled out to show no change.

[Bigpie]

In my case, he just asked if I'd drilled or welded the chassis I don't think they know the exact location of every pre-existing hole on every vehicle.

[andybpowell]

did exactly the same to me really don't know why I bothered so much, could have made my life much easier

[rstevens81]

did exactly the same to me really don't know why I bothered so much, could have made my life much easier

No Inspection? Yours is a pre 2001 isn't it?
(should of just looked up)
Ill probably do the rivnut thing on smaller holes but poke through a bolt (with big washer on the more useable holes, is my current plan however i keep going in circles with my battery boxes.

[andybpowell]

No Inspection? Yours is a pre 2001 isn't it?
(should of just looked up)
Ill probably do the rivnut thing on smaller holes but poke through a bolt (with big washer on the more useable holes, is my current plan however i keep going in circles with my battery boxes.

yes it was inspected if you can call that an inspection
going round in circles is all i do

[Jacobsmess]

It would be interesting/helpful to have detailed accounts of what was checked during these DVLA inspections and what they did.