[Driving] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

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Re: Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Zieg »

Okay, I have sold my Volt batteries and am hunting hard for something else. I have found both a Pacifica battery and a 12kWh BMW battery in the USA for as little as $2000 USD, but once you figure in >1000 kms worth of cross-border freight charges, it's ~$4k CAD and that's a bit more than I was hoping to spend. I've decided to cast a wider net and am now researching other battery options such as VW and Ford.

Finished my accelerator pedal position sensor (APPS) mount.. And yeah, I will be adding some lightness to that big bracket later on. For now, I wanted it reversible so I could play around with bearing offsets, and might still add a bolt hole somewhere for a safety return spring. Happy to share the files if anyone else wants to take a look. In hindsight I think I would do a couple things differently, but this should work just fine.
APPS top.jpg
I mentioned my friend CNC'd the parts for me, and his sense of humour being what it is, he added a little surprise for me..
ugh.jpg
Also been doing some machining for my new rear suspension. I have all four of my ball joint cups done except I left the bore about .020" under size so I can finish them to size after welding. That also gave me an excellent excuse to order a co-axial indicator. :) I'm also 3d printing some welding jigs so I can keep the geometry as consistent as possible from side to side. I used them to great effect when building the rest of the car.
wishbone welding alignment tool.JPG
RL balljoint in cup.JPG
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Re: Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Alibro »

Zieg wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 11:46 pm Okay, I have sold my Volt batteries and am hunting hard for something else. I have found both a Pacifica battery and a 12kWh BMW battery in the USA for as little as $2000 USD, but once you figure in >1000 kms worth of cross-border freight charges, it's ~$4k CAD and that's a bit more than I was hoping to spend. I've decided to cast a wider net and am now researching other battery options such as VW and Ford.

Finished my accelerator pedal position sensor (APPS) mount.. And yeah, I will be adding some lightness to that big bracket later on. For now, I wanted it reversible so I could play around with bearing offsets, and might still add a bolt hole somewhere for a safety return spring. Happy to share the files if anyone else wants to take a look. In hindsight I think I would do a couple things differently, but this should work just fine.
APPS top.jpg

I mentioned my friend CNC'd the parts for me, and his sense of humour being what it is, he added a little surprise for me..
ugh.jpg

Also been doing some machining for my new rear suspension. I have all four of my ball joint cups done except I left the bore about .020" under size so I can finish them to size after welding. That also gave me an excellent excuse to order a co-axial indicator. :) I'm also 3d printing some welding jigs so I can keep the geometry as consistent as possible from side to side. I used them to great effect when building the rest of the car.
wishbone welding alignment tool.JPG
RL balljoint in cup.JPG
Be careful of VW batteries, the ones I have from an eGolf take up a lot of space for the kWh they provide and connecting the BMS is not convenient unless you are able to use the pack as is (88S) with SimpBMS. The good thing about them is VW didn't provide heating or cooling for them so they must be pretty forgiving.
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Re: Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Zieg »

Hm, the ones I had in mind did have cooling, but I later learned they never made it to North America. D'oh!

It's kind of looking like I am stuck waiting for either a BMW or Pacifica battery, can't really find any other options in the ~12-16 kWh range. The BMW battery is appealing because of the slightly lower weight, the Pacifica battery because it already comes with water cooling plates. Maybe I could try running water through the BMW refrigerant lines and see how well that works?

I don't really want consider the older 9kWh BMW packs though, bit worried about range and how they'd cope with me trying to draw 140kW out of them.

I did already buy a Dilithium BMS setup, so with either of those options I'd likely just repin the connectors to work with the satellites I already have.
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Zieg »

It's been a while since I last updated this. Sadly I have made far less progress than I wanted to, but I'm trying to find 6-8 hours per week to work on it.


I did start to weld up the new rear suspension arms, but stopped part way through because I didn't want to be welding and grinding near the battery while it was exposed. The 3d printed cut and alignment jigs worked very well, though. I really like this method for suspension parts when it's very important to make two parts mirror image to eachother as accurately as possible. Here's a shot of the upper balljoint holder and how it was aligned, as well as an in-progress shot of the lower arms in their jigs.

Upper balljoint holder in its jig
upper balljoint jig.jpg
Lower arms in position to be welded
lower arm welding jigs.jpg
I did manage to get my hands on a Pacifica battery, and made a teardown thread detailing some design aspects of the battery as well as a list of components with part numbers. I decided on a stacked arrangement with an angle steel frame and aluminum panels. Sadly this box would not meet the latest proposed rules for competition in the SCCA, but if those rules are adopted by my club I will build a new box.

The right hand side of the frame is removable, as is the top. It's a bit of a pain, but after lowering in the bottom module, I attach the side frame, then lower the top module into place, followed by the top frame and finally all the panels. It's very tight inside though, so I had to order some 45 and 90 degree cable lugs. I also reused some of the flexible bus bar from the original battery. Once the angled lugs arrive, I will do my best to run the rest of the HV wire within the battery and into the contactor box which is mounted to the passenger side of the battery box.

Test fit outside the car, shows general frame design
battery frame.jpg
Made a new BMS wiring harness with new plugs that I ordered online
bms wiring.jpg
In the car with the top cover removed
batts in box.jpg
Not much space wasted here! (I have since decided I can probably mount the charger in the rear for better weight distribution)
batt underhood.jpg

I have also made some progress on modifications to the rear frame, going from solid axle and fuel tank mount to IRS and motor mount. Additional bracing will come after everything else has been positioned. I have also 3d printed some parts to fit into the suspension pickup points so that I can position them as precisely as possible. I did this with great results when building the front suspension, although the frame was sat on a very nice and flat build table. This time around I will have to define some datum lines and locate the brackets relative to the rest of the frame rather than the established points I had been using on the build table.

New tubes added for upper and lower control arm pickup points. Some parts of the old solid axle frame have been cut out, more still will be cut out after the rest of the welding is done.
irs frame progress.jpg
Test fit of the Leaf stack.. I had to remove the inverter, lower the motor and reducer into the opening, then reassemble the inverter to the motor in place. Again not fun, but there's just barely enough space.
motor in bay.jpg
I've made a front motor mount but ran out of material before I could do the other two mounts that I have planned. Hoping to bang those out this weekend and maybe even finish all of the welding back there.
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Zieg »

Okay, frame welding finished and motor is in! I don't have all the spacers ready but I did toss part of the suspension together on one side just as a test. So far so good.
20230910_153558.jpg
20230910_153538.jpg
Also remembered right at the last minute to check my OI board for the missing slew resistor on the can transceiver. Was missing, so added a 4k7.

Uh, this is the correct orientation, right? Seemed like it from the diagram, but the fact that JP1 on the mainboard goes to J2 on the adapter and vice versa gave me pause.
20230910_153623.jpg
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by johu »

It's correct. Silly naming, will change it on the next run
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by marcexec »

FYI, Damien had a clapped out Gen1 (Jap) 24kWh Leaf pack and the BMW PHEV pack in parallel for the dyno run.
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Zieg »

Time for another update. First spin completed! The wiring took a long time and there are still some odds and ends to tidy up, but I got it to a point where I can start testing things. Also got the charger mounted and cooling system plumbed up. I ended up making the twisted pairs I needed for things like CANBUS and the throttle pots and then did multiple pulls of wire off all my spools at once, while taping up each pull and labeling both ends of the bundle. Then I could run the bundles through the car in a single conduit and as I was terminating wires, I could mark down what went where. Eg. pull 1, white wire is the contactor signal, and so on.

I've also worked out the axle lengths I need and am going to take them to a local shop and ask them to make me a new set. Decided I just don't trust myself to weld them, and I don't really have the right equipment anyway, so making new axles is the best option. FYI the shafts also don't have enough meat on them that I could cut new splines on the existing shafts, so that's a non-starter.

For testing I'm using about 60 volts (three cordless tool batteries). When I press the accelerator the motor will spin, but releasing the accelerator does not stop the motor, and I have to put it in neutral to get it to stop. Is that expected behaviour? At first I wondered if it was a regen setting, but now I'm not sure.

Here's a video:
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Alibro »

Congrats on first spin.
In my Gen1 Nissan Leaf I had to put a load on the motor to make it stop spinning. Connecting it to the gearbox was just about enough to make it slow down so yours may be doing the same.
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by EVSwap »

The way that drive unit fits in the back just makes me giddy. It's going to be a great car. I assume that's an 80kw motor?
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Zieg »

EVSwap wrote: Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:26 pm The way that drive unit fits in the back just makes me giddy. It's going to be a great car. I assume that's an 80kw motor?
Haha, thanks. Yes it's the 80kW inverter, which with the OI board I plan to push to around 140kW as others have. Unfortunately I think I will also be traction-limited around that point, so if I ever go for more torque I'll probably also want to regear it to allow it to stay in the constant torque RPM range for as long as possible.


As for recent progress, I got the suspension assembled to the point where I was confident taking measurements for new axles. One needed to be shortened only slightly, the other needed a good few inches taken off. Unfortunately shortening the axle only a little bit is not possible due to how the diameter is reduced near the ends. So, I had one shortened and one made completely new. This one also didn't have the same diameter reduction machined in, which I suppose is okay because it will help to limit the torsional deflection and hopefully prevent any noticeable torque steer issues (Yes I know it's RWD but Caterham actually had a bit of a torque steer issue on their cars before they were able to center the rear diff.... allegedly).

I have also been working on ensuring the car is compliant with the new SCCA rules, which necessitated getting an insulation monitoring device. Found an ISO165c-1 in new condition on eBay, so that's somewhere in the mail now, along with about $100 worth of connectors, indicator lights, resistors etc to hook it all up.

And I figured what the hell, adding a rasyberry pi to the dash with Android Auto and a browser for OI. Still working on that.

Axles:
axles.jpg
Cleaned and re-greased all CV joints plus new boots all around:
CV joints.jpg
Also took the time to figure out a way to cover up the giant hole in my hood from where the ICE air intake sat:
louvers.jpg
Axles in:
axles in.jpg
Motor wired up:
motor.jpg
J1772:
j1772.jpg
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by mugball »

Zieg wrote: Mon Nov 13, 2023 12:36 am For testing I'm using about 60 volts (three cordless tool batteries).
Your cordless tool batteries caught my eye as I'm looking for a power supply to bench test before I buy the battery pack. It's obviously worked well for you on the 80kw motor with the openinverter board.

I have four 20v tool batteries I could connect in series, so I could get the guts of 80 volts.

Does anybody know whether this would be enough to spin a 110kw Leaf with a zombieverter?
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Alibro »

mugball wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:37 am Your cordless tool batteries caught my eye as I'm looking for a power supply to bench test before I buy the battery pack. It's obviously worked well for you on the 80kw motor with the openinverter board.

I have four 20v tool batteries I could connect in series, so I could get the guts of 80 volts.

Does anybody know whether this would be enough to spin a 110kw Leaf with a zombieverter?
I think the Leaf inverter needs over 200V but don't quote me on that.
A while ago I used multiple 12V batteries to power my Gen one Leaf inverter.
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by mugball »

Alibro wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 12:33 pm I think the Leaf inverter needs over 200V but don't quote me on that.
A while ago I used multiple 12V batteries to power my Gen one Leaf inverter.
I recall reading somewhere, wiki perhaps but cannot find it again, Leaf inverter needed 160v.

Hence was surprised to see it spinning on 60v. Perhaps replacing the oem inverter board with OI board removes the min voltage requirement.

I'm still keen on the cordless batteries idea, I just need to buy another 4 of the same!
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by johu »

mugball wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 7:09 pm Hence was surprised to see it spinning on 60v. Perhaps replacing the oem inverter board with OI board removes the min voltage requirement.
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Woodfie »

I recall reading somewhere, wiki perhaps but cannot find it again, Leaf inverter needed 160v.

Hence was surprised to see it spinning on 60v. Perhaps replacing the oem inverter board with OI board removes the min voltage requirement.


Think when had a leaf inverter running a smart ED motor, with a Thunderstruck vcu, that around 160 v was required or it didn't activate..
Also can recall that when motor only without gearbox, I.e very light load, it would continue to run at accelerator off position... but a small load, as in gearbox connected it would stop..Nor sure gor your case but a bit of drag may have an effect.
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Zieg »

I honestly wasn't sure it would work, but I thought I would just add more batteries until something happened. I started with the oldest, cheapest ones I had and it did cause some strange stuttering which went away after I switched to the 350v battery. If I had to do it again, I'd probably shoot for 80-100v.
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Zieg »

Finally got the new battery enclosure finished. Funny enough my current job involves a fair bit of sheet metal design, so I was able to model something up and have it laser cut and CNC bent at Send Cut Send. They also installed PEM nuts which I wanted to use rather than rivnuts so as to avoid leaving a raised surface on the mating side of the sheet. Now since I was farming this work out I tried to be as cost effective as possible, making some parts identical for quantity discounts and then modifying them later. Very impressed with the quality of what came back, even the zero clearance holes I drew lined up perfectly, even around corners. I also made some of the brackets and the top plate myself, to save a bit of money. In some cases I did use rivnuts, but I counterbored the holes on my mill to get them to sit flush.

This was the basic design.
inventor.jpg
Contactor box with 3d printed parts.
contactor box empty.jpg
(And once it was installed, but only partially wired).
contactor box partially complete.jpg
First group of cells in place. The liner is Nomex 410 paper and Kapton tape. A requirement in the SCCA rulebook.
bottom pack installed.jpg
Mid tray (same part as the base tray but I cut the front off and bent it downward for rigidity).
mid tray.jpg
Top group of cells in place and most of the wiring done.
top pack installed.jpg
And done! I'll have to pull the lid off again later to check for leaks once I refill the coolant, though.
finished box lid on.jpg
I also decided to change up my accelerator pedal situation, so I removed the single channel hall sensor and modified a Prius pedal. Basically I cut the pedal part off, then mounted it upside down behind the Wilwood pedal box and connected it with a linkage. I also ran a nicer shielded wire, just in case. And then I forgot to take a picture. oops. Oh, and I discovered a small problem with myself while testing the feel of the pedal. I was checking to see how it felt to roll on and off (linearity, overall resistance, etc) and caught myself making engine noises as I did it.

Lastly, I have been working on the computer. The one on the left is a Raspberry Pi running Open Auto Pro, powered by a CarPiHat. It can communicate with the inverter over wifi, and the BMS/MCU via USB. Eventually I want to get it onto the CAN network for datalogging too. Possibly add a camera feed and run it with TrackAddict. The screen on the right is the Dilithium display for power usage, SOC, cell balance etc. The shroud I printed for the back was a tad too tall so the dash is sitting a bit high in this picture. Will have to print a new one asap. There's also a speedometer that will be mounted below the blue buttons but I can't mount that until I reinstall the cover for the transmission tunnel.
screens on.jpg
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Re: [WIP] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Zieg »

Tested the charger and DC/DC converter today. Using the gen 1 Volt DC/DC with the MCU is pretty cool because I can just set the output voltage via command line. Verified with my multimeter as I adjusted it up and down.

And after a little messing around, the charger works! I have two portable level 1 EVSEs and one L2 EVSE mounted on a wall. The L2 cord won't reach the car right now so I just tested with the L1 units. One is an OEM BMW which did NOT work, and the other is a "Zencar" brand that I got for cheap. Unfortunately I don't have another vehicle to test with the BMW EVSE, so I have no idea if it's defective or what. Upon plugging in it seemed to communicate with the charge controller, but did not close its contacts and did not display an error. So, here's the Zencar one working.
first charge.jpg
evse.jpg
Anyway, I think I'm getting close to a test drive. Next on my todo list is to clean up the 12v wiring now that I have tested everything, get the car back on the ground and do a string wheel alignment since the entire rear suspension is new. I can take my time there, since it's snowed something like 20cm in the last few days...
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Re: [First Drive] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Zieg »

Did my first (very short) drive today! The weather was nice this weekend, and I managed to get things sorted out enough to go for a couple laps around the block. During my efforts to configure my Thunderstruck MCU I had an issue with the 'fanontemp' and 'fanofftemp' variables not working, which was later fixed with a firmware update. You have to request the firmware straight from Thunderstruck, which was a little irritating since I had no way of knowing how far out of date my firmware was until I emailed them to ask.

I also tried to calibrate my Syncofs but even after going up to 150 amps I was not getting motion from the motor. I think it may just have been pretty close to the ideal number though. I used Johu's settings as a starting point, and I can't imagine the difference from one EM57 to another is terribly massive. I also had the wheels on, so there'd be more inertia too. I have since watched Damien's tutorial where he changes the syncofs incrementally and once the battery is charged back up I will give it another shot.

The wheel alignment was a challenge but I think I got it close enough for now. Measuring and adjusting caster was quite a challenge, next time I might invest in some turn plates or at least a slip plate with angles marked on it. For now I have settled on 1 degree of static camber all around, and about 4.5 degrees of caster.
alignment.jpg
Unfortunately my dash cam seems not to have recorded the drive, though it probably wouldn't have been very interesting anyway. After my second lap around the block a car enthusiast neighbour walked over, seeming confused, and said "it's so much quieter than it was, it almost sounds electric!" :lol:

So in lieu of any video, here's a still shot. I used to absolutely hate backing the car up the driveway, because I had to rev the snot out of the motorcycle engine to get over the sidewalk curb. Not anymore! At extremely slow creeping speeds it has a bit of judder but I expect that's normal. Funny enough, that was my first time ever driving or even riding in an EV.
1st drive.jpg
Next steps are to charge the battery, try again to tune the syncofs and prepare for a longer shakedown drive next weekend. I've also designed and ordered some new front shock mounting brackets from SendCutSend. The angle of the front shocks is really too horizontal for best practices, and now that I have more weight in the front it probably couldn't hurt to have a slightly higher wheel rate. So, these new brackets will stand the shocks up a bit and add some stiffness.
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Re: [First Drive] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by johu »

That's great :)
150A and no motion is pretty good, wouldn't even bother to get closer
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Re: [First Drive] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by jrbe »

Zieg wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 3:23 am Did my first (very short) drive today!
Congratulations! I'm a huge fan of lightweight, this looks like a blast to drive.
The wheel alignment was a challenge but I think I got it close enough for now. Measuring and adjusting caster was quite a challenge, next time I might invest in some turn plates or at least a slip plate..
Construction garbage bags folded up and under each tire will work very similar to a slip plate. Just be careful, it's easy to knock the vehicle off whatever scales / stands you have it on with these. You can add soap between the layers if you need it even more slippery but it can get very messy.

As for the caster, if you're making your own uprights it definitely helps this area a bunch if you add a parallel to the kingpin line face/ edge to measure off of.
Some oems have pin holes that a bracket pops into in the upright to give a reference edge to measure from. I don't recall which way you went on this, just some ideas for you that might help, might be useless.

*Edit you might be able to 3D print a fixture that pops over your uprights to measure off of
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Re: [First Drive] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Zieg »

Ooh, that's a great idea! I don't think I ever mentioned it, but the front uprights are from a 2000 Ford Mustang. That was a strut car, and I had to add a bolt-on adapter for the upper control arm, as well as an extended lower ball joint. Not a terribly elegant solution, and it's on my list of things to change eventually. After designing my own rear uprights, I think I'm confident enough to do the same for the front. When l do, I'll definitely add a means of measuring the caster directly. Thanks for the idea!
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Re: [First Drive] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Zieg »

Went for a longer (25km according to Google, 28km according to the odometer) drive today. WOW this thing pulls! I didn't have a safe place to try a full throttle pull (and it was only 10 degrees C) but the part throttle acceleration is quite impressive, at least to me. The BMS says I used 4.4kWh (of 16kWh) and cell voltage went from ~3.9v to ~3.6v.

During the two short bits of highway driving I did notice a bit of what I fear may have been unintended acceleration. I was going down a slight hill, though I wouldn't have thought it was steep enough to make the car want to accelerate? The weird part is that I was riding the brake at one point and the BMS was reporting that I was still pulling around 50 amps while doing about 100 kph. I have no frame of reference but would have expected the current to drop to zero off throttle. Once I got below about 70-80 kph it didn't feel like that anymore, but at that point I was braking for an exit ramp. Really not sure what to make of that. I'll check my syncadv and maybe try again to verify my syncofs is right..

I also noticed it seemed to top out at about 110 kph. While on that stretch of highway I let it accelerate me to 110 and then noticed it didn't go any faster. In fact pressing the pedal all the way didn't do anything at that point. Looking at my parameters, I have fmax set to 500Hz. By my calcs the motor would have been doing about 8000 rpm at that point (small tires). It's a bit hard to decipher but from what I can tell the EM57 has 4 pole pairs (so 8 poles), and the equation I found for calculating speed from frequency is RPM = 120f/p where f is Hz and p is poles. Assuming that formula does indeed refer to poles and not pole pairs, then the fmax would equate to 7500 rpm. Planning to bump fmax to 650Hz before my next drive.

Dashcam worked this time, but clearly I need to mount it higher on the roll bar. Also it was a pretty windy day, so tons of wind noise, sorry. This is the most interesting (er, least boring, but only by a little) 1 minute segment just because it involved accelerating at about half throttle from one light and stopping at another.
Zieg
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Re: [Driving] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

Post by Zieg »

Small update in case anyone finds the above post and is having a similar issue. I verified that yes the 500Hz equates to a 7 500 rpm redline. Bumped it to 650 for my next drive. I also tried the syncofs calibration again and this time I got a completely different number. 17 000 instead of 1 000. I did not try changing the number appreciably last time because I thought I was already really close. Best guess is something was binding, maybe? Seems like the syncofs being that far off could have caused it to feel like it wanted to accelerate at higher speeds there. Hoping to get some more driving in over the next few days.
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