Toyota Gen 3 inverter charger

[RetroZero]

Great that your proof of concept works, I'm sure there are a few brains out there that will speed up a usefull solution. Thanks for the updates

[Matthew Dresser]

Sorry, I've not read the full thread here, but does this inverter serve as your motor control AS WELL AS the charger?

[celeron55]

In my setup I only use the MG2 transistors as a 3 phase rectifier and the buck/boost converter as a buck converter into the battery. No motor, no DC-DC converter.

You can use it as a charger and motor control at the same time, but I'm not sure whether the boost converter can conduct all the current for that or whether you need to short it out using a contactor when driving a motor at more than 20kW or whatever the design limit is.

[Jack Bauer]

New layout for the Prius Gen 3 and auris/ yaris board to incorporate the charger requirements from celeron55 now underway. Will post schematics for review.

[Jack Bauer]

Please see attached schematic for new rev of prius gen 3 logic board.

Changes :

1- Boost converter based charger atmega328 pinout now as requested by celeron55. Includes evse control and can bus connections.

2- added optional resistors to allow parallel drive of MG1 and MG2 power stages for experiments with dual motor and / or increased current output.

3 -Changed resolver exciter to TDA2822 (ripped of Johannes design yet again)

4 - added resistors to allow setting of dcdc converter 12v output voltage

5 - i/o pins via 34 way idc header. A separate board to be mounted on the case connects via a short ribbon cable to an Ampseal 35 way header.

So hopefully this puts us a step nearer an integrated inverter / charger / dcdc converter module. I will leave this schematic out there for a week to allow for comments before starting pcb layout and prototype order. The same design will then be applied to the Yaris / Auris board design.

[celeron55]

It looks like the charger will be powered off along with the rest of the inverter when the car is switched off. I wonder if there's an easy way to make it able to activate its 12V feed when EVSE gets connected? It has obviously ran out of external connector pins though.

Are we fine with needing an external circuit for sniffing the proximity pilot to control a relay to achieve charging without turning the ignition key?

[arber333]

It looks like the charger will be powered off along with the rest of the inverter when the car is switched off. I wonder if there's an easy way to make it able to activate its 12V feed when EVSE gets connected? It has obviously ran out of external connector pins though.

Are we fine with needing an external circuit for sniffing the proximity pilot to control a relay to achieve charging without turning the ignition key?

I think outside circuit is unavoidable since you need to feed it from cars 12V power anyway. Otherwise charger would be allways connected to 12V power and that is like 200mA unneccessary load...

I propose internal connection which pulls inverter chip fault pin down so it cant provide PWM. That is in the case of PP presence. Then you can power your charger circuit all you want.

Ah... another detail would be second input diode with 12V connected after the first one. That way you wont be powering the car with 12V when charging!

[Jack Bauer]

Ok let me see what I can do. One option is to use the enable lines for the mg2 inverter. I have it tied to 5v all the time but could pull that down using the HV request pin from the charger to avoid any posibility of the car moving while on charge. For this design I don't mind a few goes at it to get it right. My end goal with this is to run a crown funding thing and get a few thousand boards made if / when it proves to work.

[Dilbert]

It looks like the charger will be powered off along with the rest of the inverter when the car is switched off. I wonder if there's an easy way to make it able to activate its 12V feed when EVSE gets connected? It has obviously ran out of external connector pins though.

Are we fine with needing an external circuit for sniffing the proximity pilot to control a relay to achieve charging without turning the ignition key?

I was considering this approach for reading the proximity signal for the outlander charger. Putting a small micro relay to the 12V supply, which then gets pulled down by the prox signal. People could also put a simple timer in series with the prox signal, which would give a really simple charger timer. When the relay is de-energised it could allow the normal ignition signal to power the inverter.

https://www.banggood.com/DC-12V-Mini-LC ... rehouse=CN

[Jack Bauer]

Well, decided f%&k it and have ten boards on the way from JLC. Added a few things like locking out the inverter when charging and solder jumpers to enable parallel MG1 and 2 operation. Once they come in I'll ship one to celeron55 for sw development. Naturally I'll be the guinea pig and install the first one in the E39 with the Siemens motor.

[EVs4Coluche]

I'd like to ask you about "household" single phase / 230VAC 16A charging option for the upcoming Yaris/Auris form factor charger boards. I've read this thread, focused on re-reading pages #4-6 specifically dealing with it, but still not sure..

So, given the advanced (EVSE) capabilities planned for it, could the basic setup with single phase charging mode still be available as well without needing different hw revision, resistor/jumper soldering to choose between high power EVSE mode etc. ? Meaning slow charging available as default or activated via software option and also running DCDC module at the same time.. correct? On the condition battery voltage bellow ~300VDC (~130-150VDC and up for correct DCDC functionality @ ~13V). Thanks.

edit: as also explained by JoHu in the companion Gen2 board kit thread/post here:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=701#p9555

ps desired application not only as "inefficient" opportunity charging on "old plugs" if needed, but also using this oem hybrid inverter(+board) & hybrid batt pack then as readily available - transportable powerpack (field or home deployment) solution via its DCDC output as JB discussed in his first video "Gen2 Charging 01" in ~summer 2019 about it..

That application could potentially attract even more buyers for the boards/kits.. It may sound silly (w. today's modern gen scrap parts) but even junk yard ~1.3kWh OEM hybrid batt pack with shallow ~40% DoD gives upto 500Wh, which is enough for various DC connected ext. appliance's power supply/charging for several hours (e.g. Rasp Linux PC with LCD monitor, or other DC appliances: LED lights, small Radio, warm e-blanket etc.)

[mdrobnak]

Well, decided f%&k it and have ten boards on the way from JLC. Added a few things like locking out the inverter when charging and solder jumpers to enable parallel MG1 and 2 operation. Once they come in I'll ship one to celeron55 for sw development. Naturally I'll be the guinea pig and install the first one in the E39 with the Siemens motor.

Definitely looking forward to hearing how the parallel setup goes.. Maybe the Volt inverter setup will be short-lived for me.

[Bassmobile]

>Well, decided f%&k it,

Hey, that's almost always a good policy

>have ten boards on the way from JLC

Oooh, got several gen 3's and a few guinea pig chassis over here across the pond. Very interested! Happy to pay for a board & expedited shipping as soon as these are viable. Will keep a watch here.

[Jack Bauer]

New boards arrived from JLCPCB. Once I get back working I'll test and update the webshop and send a board to celeron55 and arber for beta testing the charger functions.

[Bassmobile]

New boards arrived from JLCPCB. Once I get back working I'll test and update the webshop and send a board to celeron55 and arber for beta testing the charger functions.

Ooh, this is looking awesome!
drop a line when they are on the webshop. will put in an order straight off.

[Kevin Sharpe]

[Bassmobile]

That was entertainment!
Also picked up several of these guys with a similar story "it's broken". Dirt cheap.
Gotta say, Mr. Bauer makes getting these things open look like easy. Getting into one of these is an art form, like cracking a safe.


"Hey! Think the time is right for an EV Revolution"

Awesome.

[zippy500]

so for Gen 3, the max battery voltage input is 200v ? does that still stand ? Can it take a 360v pack ?

[Jack Bauer]

so for Gen 3, the max battery voltage input is 200v ? does that still stand ? Can it take a 360v pack ?

I'm sorry but is that a serious question??? I only explained it about 5 times in the video....

[Kevin Sharpe]

so for Gen 3, the max battery voltage input is 200v ? does that still stand ? Can it take a 360v pack ?

Damien has demonstrated motors running with ~45V, ~200V, and ~400V supplied direct to the DC Bus. Arber has tested the charger with ~380V. My understanding is that the inverter can support up to 600V.

[zippy500]

ok. thanks, think I better watch the video again

[Kevin Sharpe]

ok. thanks, think I better watch the video again

The knowledge is widely dispersed across the videos, forum, and wiki. It is slowly getting condensed as more people get involved and I think Damien's latest video is a perfect example of what most people will need going forward

[zippy500]

ok thanks. I know Damien said he made the video in-depth so he would not get asked the same dum ass questions 50 times.

[postmann2002]

Hello, this is my first post here in this forum.
I'm from germany, so please excuse my bad english.
Since 9 years I drive an electric car (now an E-UP!) and since that time I'm dreaming of building/converting an EV.
I find the idea of reusing this cheap prius-device as a charger very good, and I will share my thoughts and ideas about this subject with you.

Although I'm an electrical engineer, this area is very new for me, but I think that I know the basics, maybe little more. A vew years ago I built a little powerstage for a small BLDC-Motor with Hall-Sensors, controlled by a Microchip dspic30f4012... but because lack of time I stopped this project.

But now, "corona" and my family give me time for playing around with this stuff again.
Since a few days I am tinkering with a Prius Gen3 Inverter and a Breakout-Board from Damien.
I have also the idea of using this inverter for high-power-3-phase-chargin in a converted car.

What about the Idea of switching the ~400V HV-Battery between the "low-side"-section of the Inverter while charging-sequence ...and "high-side"-section while driving?
And while driving, the buck converter could produce on the "low side"-section ~250V from the 400V traction-battery ("high-side"-section) for the 14V/100A DC/DC-Converter (12V-Bat-Charger).
Originaly as it is, charging could work with mains 400V 3~ AC, but with 230V ~ (L1,N, PE) it wouldn't work, because the "high-side"-rails have just 320V DC (lower than 400V traction-bat).
Therefore we need a boost-converter.
My idea is mounting a big diode and a switch-device (IGBT) between the big inductor and filter-capacitor on the low side.

Would it be possible (space, cooling?)? ...or maybe is it crazy and impossible?

Kind regards... Peter

Here is my idea in a circuit-diagram:

Prius Gen3 Inverter as Charger and Motor Inverter (Idea)

[Kevin Sharpe]

Would it be possible (space, cooling?)? ...or maybe crazy and impossible?

How much AC power do you want? Maybe a Tesla PCS would be a better solution given it already has the bidirectional functionality;

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=171&p=11189#p11177