Some Chademo stations closing contactors then faulting

Development and discussion of fast charging systems eg Chademo , CCS etc
Post Reply
User avatar
johu
Site Admin
Posts: 5681
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:52 pm
Location: Kassel/Germany
Has thanked: 153 times
Been thanked: 959 times
Contact:

Some Chademo stations closing contactors then faulting

Post by johu »

I'm on another CHAdeMO trip with a London taxi. We added CHAdeMO to it but on many stations we can't charge.

When looking at CAN it looks mostly similar:
- startup works ok
- Stations ramps up its test voltage to 500V
- Station closes EV contactors briefly but sees no voltage
- Charge is aborted

The contactors are stock Nissan with stock economizer board
I have the same code and same contactors running in Touran with no issues
Attachments
charging pulse failed3.csv
(38.01 KiB) Downloaded 97 times
Support R/D and forum on Patreon: https://patreon.com/openinverter - Subscribe on odysee: https://odysee.com/@openinverter:9
User avatar
larsrengersen
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 9:42 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Some Chademo stations closing contactors then faulting

Post by larsrengersen »

Have quickly looked at the log. It seems like the station is not happy from the beginning.
It flags a 1 in 0x109 Byte 5, Bit 5 "Charger stop control" (Status flag indicating whether or not the station proceeds with shutdown process).
Only thing I see that should be different (and sometimes it matters and sometimes it does not) is the order of the messages you are sending.
In your log I see: 0x100, 0x102, 0x101
I think that should be 0x100, 0x101, 0x102
Is your proximity setup the same?
And is the relay that confirms contactors close (see my blog "CHAdeMO fast charging in DIY" for which one I mean) holding? If that opens or does not close at all, it stops at that point too if I remember correctly.
User avatar
johu
Site Admin
Posts: 5681
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:52 pm
Location: Kassel/Germany
Has thanked: 153 times
Been thanked: 959 times
Contact:

Re: Some Chademo stations closing contactors then faulting

Post by johu »

Thanks for looking at it so quickly!
There is no proximity setup currently, only a LED attached to it. VCU detects CHAdeMO only from d1 12V.
Also in this log vehicle charge permission (4) was always grounded, maybe some chargers don't like that. Now it is triggered correctly and in sync with the CAN enable bit but that didn't change the situation. I'll pull another logfile on the next occasion and with the latest setup.

Also we are not able to open the chademo contactors from the vehicle side, if the stations wants to close them, they close
Support R/D and forum on Patreon: https://patreon.com/openinverter - Subscribe on odysee: https://odysee.com/@openinverter:9
User avatar
Bigpie
Posts: 1585
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:11 pm
Location: South Yorkshire, UK
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 299 times

Re: Some Chademo stations closing contactors then faulting

Post by Bigpie »

Some stations require the proximity. The instavolts locally dont recognise the car is plugged in without it connected to 12v
VW Beetle 2003
Outlander front generator
Prius Gen 3 inverter (EVBMW logic board)
Outlander charger
3x Golf GTE batteries
Chademo Charging
Outlander water heater
User avatar
CCSknowitall
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:47 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: Some Chademo stations closing contactors then faulting

Post by CCSknowitall »

I'll premise this with I'm not a CHAdeMO know-it-all. ;)

I suspect the main thing you are doing wrong is that on the EV Status bit (message 102 Byte 5, bit 3) you are stating contactor closed the entire time (from your first messages to the station). I suspect some stations ignore this bit (since the logic lines are really controlling the contactors), but if you are not following on the CAN bus with what is actually happening, it's probably going to trip up some stations. All the other car logs I have show vehicles sending "contactor open" until precharge/station actually commanding the contactors closed.

Two other minor things:
1) Your SOC is 99%. This will not create a fault in and of itself, but it's possible now and in the future some EVSEs don't allow charging at very high SOC. I.e. limited to under 80%.
2) Your current request is going up during the whole start of setup. By the time cable check is done you're at ~80A and rising. Perhaps the charger does not like this large discrepancy? The default is 0A until you are actually ready to ask for current (after contactors have closed).
User avatar
johu
Site Admin
Posts: 5681
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:52 pm
Location: Kassel/Germany
Has thanked: 153 times
Been thanked: 959 times
Contact:

Re: Some Chademo stations closing contactors then faulting

Post by johu »

Yes valid points. Thing is that I do all those "mistakes" in Touran as well and never had issues of that kind.
The contactor open bit is only valid in CHAdeMO 1.0 but we identify as 0.9. With that bit set in 0.9 some stations will fault out immediately. I wouldn't think I send SoC 99% but 49.5% - I send 200 as total capacity to obtain 0.5% resolution. Not that any station ever displayed that...

Also I had trouble finding the point where the cable check is over. The chargers flags don't reflect this at all, they remain at 0x24 until you start asking for current. If you wait for 0x05 (i.e. charging + connector lock) you will wait forever and get a timeout. Maybe by finding the point where the 500V test voltage is gone would be a strategy but then again, in Touran this hackery was never necessary.

I'll keep that stuff in mind anyway. Our latest possible culprit was the contactors not closing due to high resistance in the control cables. We could see 11.5V on the terminal blocks but the charger reported 0V on its output. Maybe some brands supply 11.8V and some 13V and it makes the difference?
Support R/D and forum on Patreon: https://patreon.com/openinverter - Subscribe on odysee: https://odysee.com/@openinverter:9
User avatar
pablo_mtl
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:30 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Some Chademo stations closing contactors then faulting

Post by pablo_mtl »

Hi johu,

I had the same issue on my last CHAdeMO conversion. All seemed straight and nicely timed on the CAN and signals implementation, but my sessions were failing on SOME stations around town. I even learned by trial and error which brand and generation of EVSEs were rejecting my car.

The failure timing was similar to yours:
- startup works ok
- Stations ramps up its test voltage to 500V
- Station closes EV contactors briefly but sees no voltage
- Charge is aborted

After having access to one of them to investigate closer, I was able to scope everything and pinpoint the culprit.

My hardware was textbook example of the CHAdeMO schematic, as is. Meaning that I connected the coils of my two chademo contactors (some gigavacs with economizers) as pictured in the schematic: to be powered by D1 (start stop 1 / 12V) and D2 (start stop 2 / GND) coming directly from the station. Yes, on the vehicle side you have a relay (called "EV contactor control relay" on the right) to accept this power, but the current itself in your coils is coming from the EVSE.

I discovered that having two gigavac contactors to power was too much current for some stations. Right after they close the contactors, they asses the current / voltage going through D1 D2 and they simply open everything and fail the session.

My solution what quite simple: I did what you would do... I routed D1 and D2 to energize the coil of a smaller relay, that powers the two large CHAdeMO coils in the vehicle WITH vehicle-supplied 12V.

It solved everything. On every problematic station.

The 11V voltage you read on some stations is just a hint that they can't supply your coils with enough current. Use smaller contactors or add a small relay to power everything from your (infinite) onboard known-good 12V.

That would be an easy thing to try.
Attachments
chademo.jpg
User avatar
johu
Site Admin
Posts: 5681
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:52 pm
Location: Kassel/Germany
Has thanked: 153 times
Been thanked: 959 times
Contact:

Re: Some Chademo stations closing contactors then faulting

Post by johu »

Nice to see this confirmed.
My current setup in Touran is also two Gigavacs with economizers but I'm using the aux contact of the first one to energize the second. That way the first one is already economizing when the second one kicks on. As before Touran charges on every charger.
Support R/D and forum on Patreon: https://patreon.com/openinverter - Subscribe on odysee: https://odysee.com/@openinverter:9
User avatar
larsrengersen
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 9:42 am
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Some Chademo stations closing contactors then faulting

Post by larsrengersen »

User avatar
pablo_mtl
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:30 pm
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Some Chademo stations closing contactors then faulting

Post by pablo_mtl »

larsrengersen wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 7:36 pm Max allowed current draw is 2A
https://www.evcreate.nl/chademo-fast-charging-in-diy/
Indeed... but as with every implementation, the EVSE builders sometimes differ one way or another with their final setup. (just like us, on the vehicle end). I guess sometimes they go for "2A continuous" and sometimes they go for "no more than 2A at any time"... and sometimes they just go with the label of their internal 12V power supply and they substract their own current consumption.

Same goes for a few other signals where the designer can interpret things. I've seen first gen Kia Soul EVs not being detected by some CHAdeMO stations around here.
Post Reply