Looking for SMART EV (or any other Sub 50kW) drivetrain [SOLD]

[johu]

Would like to use this for an Audi A2 conversion. It needs to be less or as powerful as the original Diesel engine (50kW)

[sfk]

MGR from a Lexus RX450H or Toyota Rav4 is around 50kW. May also be used in 4wd Prius gen4.
And fitted to a few hybrid vans and people movers in Japan I believe.
Not sure what max RPM is, but when not providing launch torque it free-wheels at normal road speeds.

[johu]

Ok nice. So can it be extracted from the transmission or should it better be used with it?

[sfk]

Complete package with reduction gearing and open differential. I expect getting the motor itself out and building a new housing would be big task.

In essence it is quite similar to the Leaf motor / reduction gear / diff package, except slightly smaller, slightly less powerful and perhaps a bit more symmetrical in terms of position in engine bay and output shaft lengths?

Air cooled, but you could put an oil cooler between the fluid drain & fill plugs with a pump to circulate fluid.

I would totally use 1 of these in a small car, front or rear wheel drive. And would put 2 in a smallish 4wd car!

[pm_dawn]

Perhaps a motor from the triplets?
Ion, C-zero or i-Miev

Or from the Early Think cars.
Same motor as in this
https://sprzedajemy.pl/fiat-seicento-el ... nr17119627

Regards
/Per

[arber333]

Or you can get Renault Twizy and take its ACIM motor. It is made in Slovenia by Letrika/Mahle. This aircooled ACIM motor is actually rated at 15kw at 60Vdc but it was consistently used up to 130Vdc with 550A Curtis controller. I think it can give like 40KW easily. Motor can drive Fiat Punto or Panda with original gearbox.

[arber333]

Or you can get Renault Twizy and take its ACIM motor. It is made in Slovenia by Letrika/Mahle. This aircooled ACIM motor is actually rated at 15kw at 60Vdc but it was consistently used up to 130Vdc with 550A Curtis controller. I think it can give like 40KW easily. Motor can drive Fiat Punto or Panda with original gearbox.

There is also another possibility .
Stane, the guy who supplied the wine last time has one ACIM motor. ZPM 112M4 is rated at 21kW 1H in a 200Vdc system. It can go up to 40kW with your inverter. It is certified for EV use.
In Slovenia i know a guy who has one such Audi A2 EV. If you are interested i can send you some photos of installation?
Your intention is to use original transmission or without?

[prensel]

I have a complete front axle drivetrain from a AGV Ford Transit Connect.

[johu]

Some good suggestions here, thanks Sorry missed it earlier
So transit means it's the infamous Enova motor and controller?

In Slovenia i know a guy who has one such Audi A2 EV. If you are interested i can send you some photos of installation?
Your intention is to use original transmission or without?

Yes, please get some photos from the A2.
No intention concerning transmission. If we end up using a Prius or similar transmission then of course we scrap the cars transmission. If we end up using some bare motor, we will use transmission. The latter is slightly preferred as I've done it before.

[arber333]

I will get you some pictures and maybe some links.

Lately this has come to my attention:


It is ACIM and supposed to have 50Nm of torque. Rpm should be up to 4000rpm. I think it is 8pole?

See if 2 of them would fit A2 with prius inverter and some differential from rear drive BMW.

[Emyr]

we already have a thread about the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV motorised rear axle.

The Peugeot Hybrid4 system was a PSA+Bosch+GKN joint project, and the Outlander is also sold with Peugeot and Citroen badges so I expect Hybrid4 axles to be the same item.

2012-2016 Peugeot 3008 Hybrid4
2012-2016 Peugeot 508 RXH HYbrid4
2012-2016 Peugeot 508 Hybrid4
2012-2016 Citroën DS5 HYbrid4

[arber333]

OK this is Letrika ACIM motor data that is used in Renault Twizzy. With inverter and 72Vdc battery it can make 15kW.
http://www.hribitec.com/si/elektricni-a ... erjem.html

I think with 150Vdc and Johannes r2 controller it would make like 40kW. If you find one motor from a broken twizzy you can get it to work in a small car like Fiat Panda, Punto, Smart, Citroen C2, Opel Corsa or Audi A2. It was done before.

[johu]

It is ACIM and supposed to have 50Nm of torque. Rpm should be up to 4000rpm. I think it is 8pole?

See if 2 of them would fit A2 with prius inverter and some differential from rear drive BMW.

Yes I think Damien started his smokey Diesel generator with one of these. But it is a permanent magnet motor if I remember correctly. Also equipping an induction motor with a resolver would be a bit odd.

[johu]

OK this is Letrika ACIM motor data that is used in Renault Twizzy. With inverter and 72Vdc battery it can make 15kW.
http://www.hribitec.com/si/elektricni-a ... erjem.html

I think with 150Vdc and Johannes r2 controller it would make like 40kW. If you find one motor from a broken twizzy you can get it to work in a small car like Fiat Panda, Punto, Smart, Citroen C2, Opel Corsa or Audi A2. It was done before.

Very nice motor. So that with paralleled Leaf cells would output 40kW then. Should be alright for an A2. Will start looking for broken Twizys then.

[johu]

Found a Twizy motor just 40km away from here. Went to pick it up today for just 280€ The label has Slovenia written on it. Thanks for the suggestion

[arber333]

Found a Twizy motor just 40km away from here. Went to pick it up today for just 280€ The label has Slovenia written on it. Thanks for the suggestion

I think the motor will surprise you. It says 15kW at 72V source. But we consistently found out it is capable of 40kW+. Of course you will have to use higher voltage. There is one guy in Slovenia who made several cooling tubes for wrapping around the motor for additional cooling.
I still think output shaft is a bit flimsy for 40kW though.

Motor P/N is apparently 11.217.136.seems like an IP adress.
It is 4 pole wound for 30V per phase.
I am posting some data from Mahle/Letrika staff back in the day. Their software seems to work in slip mode also. No FOC here
Bare with my translation please....

Rotor at steady state:
Case 1:
n=3561rpm_Pout=4kW_f=120Hz
slip=120-3561/30=1,3Hz
Case for 4kW, M=10,7Nm

Case 2:
n=3579rpm_Pout=2kW_f=120Hz
slip=120-3579/30=0,7Hz
P 2kW, M=5,3Nm

Case 3:
n=3588rpm_Pout=1kW_f=120Hz
slip=120-3588/30=0,4Hz
P 1kW, M=2,7Nm

Calculated sim is valid for 10,7Nm; 5,3Nm and 2,7Nm at 120Hz. Battery voltage 48Vdc (phase voltage 30Vac).

Core saturation slip. Could be more than 2x slipmin
Case 1:
n=2389rpm_Pout=14kW_f=83Hz
slip=83-2389/30=3,4Hz
P 14kW, M=56Nm

Case 2:
n=3465rpm_Pout=12,5kW_f=120Hz
slip=120-3465/30=4,5Hz
P 12,5kW, M=34,5Nm

Battery voltage 48Vdc (phase voltage 30Vac).
FW point for Twizzy is 80Hz at phase voltage Uac=30V.

[johu]

Very nice Arber, configuration - check
So I can set udcnom=48V, fweak = 80Hz, boost=?, fslipmin=0.7Hz, fslipmax=4Hz.
So at say 180V it would maintain full torque till 300Hz / 10.000 rpm. Hope I won't run into the same problem as you did with the Fleck machine

[arber333]

Very nice Arber, configuration - check
So I can set udcnom=48V, fweak = 80Hz, boost=?, fslipmin=0.7Hz, fslipmax=4Hz.
So at say 180V it would maintain full torque till 300Hz / 10.000 rpm. Hope I won't run into the same problem as you did with the Fleck machine

Hm... true. At that voltage you would have to increase fweak to lean out motor enough so it is not jumpy. I think 4Hz will not be a problem. Mine is set at 6.4Hz but could work at 7.2Hz with battery that could give 400A.
I think max rpm would be 7000rpm here. Also Fslipmin 0.4Hz could also be enough, but i dont know what kind of regen you would get here.

[Peter]

Hello arber333.
I have been looking at your formula and was wondering if it will be the same for my set up please?
I am using the 90Kw Enova motor, same as Damien has in his drift car.
Its rated for max 9000rpm, max 305Hz, mav 208V, max 338A.
Using the Combi V8 inverter control (thanks Damien and Johannes) I have set max freq to 300Hz which gives 9000rpm off load.
Bus voltage is 230v.
Can your formula still be used for my set up?
Any help with the slip etc would be much appreciated please.

Thanks in advance. Peter

[arber333]

Hello arber333.
I have been looking at your formula and was wondering if it will be the same for my set up please?
I am using the 90Kw Enova motor, same as Damien has in his drift car.
Its rated for max 9000rpm, max 305Hz, mav 208V, max 338A.
Using the Combi V8 inverter control (thanks Damien and Johannes) I have set max freq to 300Hz which gives 9000rpm off load.
Bus voltage is 230v.
Can your formula still be used for my set up?
Any help with the slip etc would be much appreciated please.

Thanks in advance. Peter

I think this is motor specific. Guys from Letrika sent me those formulas after their tests on Twizzy motor.
For you i think you can find equasions on Johannes site:
https://openinverter.org/wiki/Schematic ... structions
https://openinverter.org/docs/index.htm ... rs,24.html

I would have to see motor plate to answer more specific...

[Peter]

Hello arber333.
Thank you for the links.
All the best. Peter

[paaa]

I know of a scrap yard with IMEV , also I may have a spare enova inverter motor and all wiring. I have two of these vans so if you want photos or to check wiring thats still possible.

[arber333]

Hi all! I found some more data on Twizzy Letrika motor.

https://www.off-grid-systems.de/15-kW-4 ... z-ASV-7102

[alg7_munif]

Found a Twizy motor just 40km away from here. Went to pick it up today for just 280€ The label has Slovenia written on it. Thanks for the suggestion

Hi sorry for bumping an old thread, I'm new here and I have a Renault Twizy with a faulty controller. I'm looking for a replacement controller which is suitable for the motor, can you point me to the right direction. Thanks.