[WIP] L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale

[nkiernan]

If you don't mind me asking - where did you get your welding table, was it in kit form or pre-assembled and would you recommend the supplier?

I wouldn't recommend the supplier at all, doesn't know what he's at! It's one I drew up and fab'd myself, slot and tab design, and had laser cut locally. 16mm holes at 50mm spacing. DXF's there if you need them

[Pete9008]

Having seen your fabrication and CAD skills I shouldn't be surprised Looks like a superb bit of kit!

Thanks for the offer of the DXFs, may take you up on it in the future but going to have a look for something pre-assembled first.

[nkiernan]

HV Loom:

Amphenol plug and socket kits arrived so had them assembled into two loom sections. Main one connects the two battery boxes and runs to the HVJB in the engine bay. Second one runs from the HVJB to the inverter

[Pete9008]

Looking good, really like the attention to detail going into this build

How did you get on with the bms, were you able to repair that pcb trace?

[nkiernan]

How did you get on with the bms, were you able to repair that pcb trace?

Didn't get back to the trace repair just yet, hopefully soon

[nkiernan]

Battery Boxes:

Back to the junction boxes that will be integral to the two battery boxes.

These looms connect both battery box junction boxes to the high voltage junction box in the engine bay and consists of the HV DC loom as well as the Orion 2 BMS tap wire loom and a contactor control loom with some spare wires for future use

Final connector locations set out and quick templates drawn out helps keep everything accurate, especially when there will be multiples of the same cutout

This is how the HV DC loom will connect the two battery boxes

Then back to the fiddly busbar work

The negative junction box with its own fuse and contactor for HV-

And the positive junction box again fused with a HV+ contactor, as well as a pre-charge resistor and contactor

[nkiernan]

Inverter:

Probably won't get very far with those spindly wires! These were used with the 48V bench test voltages

Time for an upgrade and another matching connector that will also connect to the HVJB in the engine bay

Will add some suitable cable clamps once things are lined up

[nkiernan]

HVJB:


The high voltage junction box in the engine bay will house the Tesla Model 3 PCS (AC and DC charger and DC-DC unit), as well as connecting the battery to the inverter and charging interfaces, which means more connectors

Originally I planned to hard wire the battery box HV DC cables through cable glands into the rear of the HVJB, but changed direction to allow a more modular build, so how to work around the original holes!

This took way more time and messing than you'd expect!!! Trying to get a layout that works for all the various connectors and wiring that will follow. I have two shunts here, the ISA that will work with the Zombie VCU and the original Tesla Model 3 shunt which when used with the Tesla high voltage controller will provide a lot of data over CAN. So keeping options open for now. There are also two contactors for HV DC charging (have a BMW i3 LIM ready). And finally fuse holders for the TM3 PCS, A/C, and cabin heater

Busbars take up way too much time, but getting there. After I figure out the various taps onto the HV busbars for the fuses etc, I'll heat shrink remaining surfaces

[nkiernan]

HVJB:

So the Orion 2 BMS needs its own shunt too! Required a little trimming and tweaking to the main busbar to allow it to fit and some tidying with heat shrink

[nkiernan]

Batteries:

Getting back to the batteries, and there will be a link between the two battery boxes that requires the lower battery module in each box to connect to a junction box. Chance to repurposing some of the original TM3 busbars

I've not tackled the damaged alu BMS trace yet, but have been investigating and experimenting with what looks like a good solution. Testing on some yogurt pot aluminum lids with minimal cleaning/prep and so far I'm surprised at how strong the hold is...build up some courage to tackle that trace soon maybe!

[jetpax]

Such a well engineered project, congrats!

Still trying to get confidence in the GS450 design, as all my calculations suggest it will not be able to climb long hills at cruising speed (say mile long 4% hill at 65mph) as it will overheat.

As I live in Scotland hills are a concern! Id like to think I could survive a tour over the Alps too…

I saw Damiens vid where he runs on the freeway for a bit but doesnt really push it.

Did you satisfy yourself that this will not be a problem?

If so what maximum sustained gradient do you think the RR will climb at cruising speed with a GS450?

[Jacobsmess]

Such a well engineered project, congrats!

Still trying to get confidence in the GS450 design, as all my calculations suggest it will not be able to climb long hills at cruising speed (say mile long 4% hill at 65mph) as it will overheat.

As I live in Scotland hills are a concern! Id like to think I could survive a tour over the Alps too…

I saw Damiens vid where he runs on the freeway for a bit but doesnt really push it.

Did you satisfy yourself that this will not be a problem?

If so what maximum sustained gradient do you think the RR will climb at cruising speed with a GS450?

What calculations are you doing? The torque output with the high gear I've done would easily carry my van

[nkiernan]

Still trying to get confidence in the GS450 design, as all my calculations suggest it will not be able to climb long hills at cruising speed (say mile long 4% hill at 65mph) as it will overheat

To model or calculate accurate results takes in many variables, and could be a project in itself. After watching Damian's (and other's) work with the GS450H, its not something I'm concerned about...yet! The cooling system allows for much more flexibility than the motor options in my opinion (easily change coolant flow, radiator spec etc). So I'll be monitoring temperatures when I get to testing and will be open to revising the cooling then

[nkiernan]

Transfer Case:

The divorced transfer case input stub has caused some headaches along the way holding up that first wheel spin, so decided to try tackle this myself...but not holding my breath! Had spares for the transfer case spline (from a failed gearbox) and a CV flange.


The gearbox output shaft gets a retaining round cir-clip groove before being cut to length and chamfered for a final weld

Where I think the previous version tried to use the CV cup spline shaft in the lathe as a datum, I'm trying to use the CV itself to give it the best chance of alignment. CV gets set up with the dial gauge first and then the CV flange bolts on and more dial gauge checks

Fingers crossed

Using the freezer and the oven, managed a tight shrink fit, and before any welding a test fit seems to look good

[jetpax]

What calculations are you doing? The torque output with the high gear I've done would easily carry my van

Its not a question of torque output but power

ie torque x rpm

The motor generator temperature rises very quickly whilst delivering max power. But long duration max power is rarely called for.

The one exception is constant acceleration at near max cruising speed eg going up a hill at 70mph

In that case you are required to generate max power for prolonged periods, which will cause overheating.

To put hard numbers on it, for a not very streamlined car such as a RR, with CdA of maybe 1.1m^2, you might need about 25kW to cruise at 70 mph, which would be fine.

But you would need about 3x that to go up an 8% grade at the same time. I may be wrong but 75kW sounds like the gs450 mg could get quite toasty

If you want to tow also ……!!!

Only going on physics and this related doc, https://info.ornl.gov/sites/publication ... b26762.pdf see page 70 for temp rise at 50kW

I believe this is similar to gs450 except for the transfer box

[jetpax]

To model or calculate accurate results takes in many variables, and could be a project in itself. After watching Damian's (and other's) work with the GS450H, its not something I'm concerned about...yet! The cooling system allows for much more flexibility than the motor options in my opinion (easily change coolant flow, radiator spec etc). So I'll be monitoring temperatures when I get to testing and will be open to revising the cooling then

Youre right it is quite involved, but important to do esp if you are converting a high value donor vehicle IMO

[Jacobsmess]

Its not a question of torque output but power

ie torque x rpm

The motor generator temperature rises very quickly whilst delivering max power. But long duration max power is rarely called for.

The one exception is constant acceleration at near max cruising speed eg going up a hill at 70mph

In that case you are required to generate max power for prolonged periods, which will cause overheating.

To put hard numbers on it, for a not very streamlined car such as a RR, with CdA of maybe 1.1m^2, you might need about 25kW to cruise at 70 mph, which would be fine.

But you would need about 3x that to go up an 8% grade at the same time. I may be wrong but 75kW sounds like the gs450 mg could get quite toasty

If you want to tow also ……!!!

Only going on physics and this related doc, https://info.ornl.gov/sites/publication ... b26762.pdf see page 70 for temp rise at 50kW

I believe this is similar to gs450 except for the transfer box

Understood, from memory mg2 is rated for 100kw and mg1 at least 50kw, which are likely peak values but still on the better side of things. There's some good information on the gs450H gearbox by Oak Ridge labs that identifies the continuous values I believe.

[RangeRoveePete]

I have a backlog of updates to write up here shortly.

Will look forward to hearing more about your project. Is it SDV6 with 8 speed auto? Do you know if the transfer box is Magna DD295 like the Range Rover? I'd check some projects based on a transverse Tesla Model 3 RDU for some good ideas!!!

If the D4 is currently on the road, critical you capture lots of CAN logs and ideally do some reverse engineering before you start any conversion. There is a lot going on with transmission and transfer case on the CAN bus and I know that will cause me some fun before I'm finished too

So, not got anywhere on this at the moment. My home got flooded by sewage, so I’ve been out of there for 2 months! And I’m trying to complete an L322 and Mini Cooper s r53 to sell and add to the bank deposit funds. Then I’ll be looking out for a Disco 4 with 8spd there’s somd good deals out there for facelift 2012-14

You make a great point about the can bus logging. I wonder if there’s a way to utilise machine learning to help unravel the data?
How are you getting on with that regard?

[nkiernan]

So, not got anywhere on this at the moment. My home got flooded by sewage, so I’ve been out of there for 2 months! And I’m trying to complete an L322 and Mini Cooper s r53 to sell and add to the bank deposit funds. Then I’ll be looking out for a Disco 4 with 8spd there’s somd good deals out there for facelift 2012-14

You make a great point about the can bus logging. I wonder if there’s a way to utilise machine learning to help unravel the data?
How are you getting on with that regard?

What is the L322 you have there? 3.6? I have limited CAN logs with the engine running but have most of the dash control sorted. Once it gets rolling I'm interested to see what shows up around gearbox and transfer case warnings on the dash.

[RangeRoveePete]

Yes it’s a 3.6 2007 - can I help?

[RangeRoveePete]

Yes it’s a 3.6 2007 - can I help?

I say help… when the engine is re assembled. Lol

[nkiernan]

I say help… when the engine is re assembled. Lol

Sounds like fun! When it's back up and running, could be helpful to grab a couple of CAN logs. If it's going up for sale at some stage, shoot me a pm

[nkiernan]

Back to the Transfer Case:

In an earlier post I looked at the motor to transfer case drive shaft angle mock up as the motor sat in the engine bay. I wasn't happy with the drive shaft angle (>12 degrees) but was going to test with this to keep things moving, worry about it another day! Another day has come round, so time to undo previous work...again


Out it comes again

Originally the motor was mounted to clear the front diff, axle tube, the right hand side axle carrier, and some rigid steering rack hose lines

This time some parts get changed. RHS axle carrier mods

New, and hopefully improved, divorced transfer case input stub shaft welded up and fit in place

After a lot of time, it doesn't look any different! But the motor sits 50mm lower and about 20mm closer to center

Checking alignment

New drive shaft fully assembled

And it looks like an angle less than 5 degrees, that's better. Will it vibrate

[nkiernan]

Battery:

While I keep an eye out for a replacement TM3 24 cell battery module (recent cell issue), I've been following Johu's work with the VW ID modules. I see them used in commercial universal packs and they have a number of BMS options. So considering an early upgrade to the battery situation!!! No harm in looking!

Trying to see if a full 82kWh pack will fit. This is the 12 module pack, and the larger modules means fewer new busbars compared to something like an I-Pace pack

The overall footprint has to get a lot smaller, but I have scope to make the pack deeper. Considered mounting the modules on their side as I have to leave rear driveshaft clearance down the center. This raised questions about having to reduce the capacity due to being mounted on their side and also made cooling a bit tricky. This option gives a narrow footprint which works with the chassis rails

Next option almost works with less modifications to the original battery casing. Plan is to reuse the casing and to try reuse the cooling and underside crash plate. But this sits wider than the chassis rails and so lowers ground clearance where it sits

This is looking like a solution. Keeps the modules flat to retain max capacity, reuse most of the original casing, I think I can modify the underside cooling plate to work for the lower 8 modules, and then use the cut-away cooling sections and incorporated them into the lid top to cater for the top four modules!!! To be investigated further. That would keep all coolant lines outside the pack like OEM. There's free space in the center for the contactors and BMS unit, but as Johu found, the top modules might need to be mounted upside down to simplify busbars

To be continued...

[Ev8]

Nice work as always