LOL! See now I was thinking the exact opposite.... so they COULD get them to be the same.konstantin8818 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:06 pm I'm pretty shure that resolver calibration plug and three retaining bolts situated on the outside of the MGR is for good reason - to calibrate every single MGR on the production line. That means non of them have the same syncofs.
Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
Huebner VCU controlling a Gen2 Prius Inverter powering an MGR
"Talent is equally distributed but opportunity is not." - Leila Janah
"Talent is equally distributed but opportunity is not." - Leila Janah
- konstantin8818
- Posts: 287
- Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:33 pm
- Location: Minsk, Belarus
- Been thanked: 5 times
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
All three plugs are M18x1.5 Length 11mm.Jack Bauer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:35 pm Anyone know the thread on the oil drain and level check plugs?
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
The filler is M18 by 1.5mm pitch and I haven’t taken the drain out but cant imagine it's different.Jack Bauer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:35 pm Anyone know the thread on the oil drain and level check plugs?
- TheSilverBuick
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:01 pm
- Location: Nevada, United States
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 1 time
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
I was just coming back to say I don't know the diameter but definitely measured 1.50 thread count.
Need to learn. Starting from the basics.
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
I need to get my eyes examined
Huebner VCU controlling a Gen2 Prius Inverter powering an MGR
"Talent is equally distributed but opportunity is not." - Leila Janah
"Talent is equally distributed but opportunity is not." - Leila Janah
- Kevin Sharpe
- Posts: 1345
- Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:24 pm
- Location: Ireland and US
- Been thanked: 4 times
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
This is a personal post and I disclaim all responsibility for any loss or damage which any person may suffer from reliance on the information and material in this post or any opinion, conclusion or recommendation in the information and material.
- konstantin8818
- Posts: 287
- Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:33 pm
- Location: Minsk, Belarus
- Been thanked: 5 times
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
I believe now he is up to design oil cooling. I'm still in doubts of what is most simple, cheap yet efficient way to cool oil.Kevin Sharpe wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:25 pm Damien has posted an MGR update on patreon;
https://www.patreon.com/posts/too-many-41106869
Heavy duty oil pumps are way too expensive even on ebay and aliexpress. My thought is to glue brass water tubes on the outside of casing in most heated places for better heat exchange.
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
Now anyone could say how the rpm/V is? I really need 600V for reach the 50kW?
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
I have tested at 165v & 7000RPM no load, but have not found any documentation of the ampacity of the MGR, having said that 100A @ 500V = 50kW and the wires appear to be about 8ga.
Huebner VCU controlling a Gen2 Prius Inverter powering an MGR
"Talent is equally distributed but opportunity is not." - Leila Janah
"Talent is equally distributed but opportunity is not." - Leila Janah
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
My plan, if needed, is to use a universal (low pressure) in-line fuel pump and turn it on with a snap-switch at about 70*C.konstantin8818 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:07 pm I believe now he is up to design oil cooling. I'm still in doubts of what is most simple, cheap yet efficient way to cool oil.
B+__fuse____/ ___Pump___B-
Huebner VCU controlling a Gen2 Prius Inverter powering an MGR
"Talent is equally distributed but opportunity is not." - Leila Janah
"Talent is equally distributed but opportunity is not." - Leila Janah
- konstantin8818
- Posts: 287
- Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:33 pm
- Location: Minsk, Belarus
- Been thanked: 5 times
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
Hot oil most definitely will destroy fuel pump. But give it a try, maybe I'm wrong.
- Kevin Sharpe
- Posts: 1345
- Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:24 pm
- Location: Ireland and US
- Been thanked: 4 times
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
Why don't we get a MGR working in a car before speculating about oil cooling?konstantin8818 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:07 pm I believe now he is up to design oil cooling. I'm still in doubts of what is most simple, cheap yet efficient way to cool oil.
Heavy duty oil pumps are way too expensive even on ebay and aliexpress. My thought is to glue brass water tubes on the outside of casing in most heated places for better heat exchange.
This is a personal post and I disclaim all responsibility for any loss or damage which any person may suffer from reliance on the information and material in this post or any opinion, conclusion or recommendation in the information and material.
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
Could an electric power steering pump be used for circulating the cooling oil?
Cheap, plentiful and designed for continuous automotive use.
Cheap, plentiful and designed for continuous automotive use.
- konstantin8818
- Posts: 287
- Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:33 pm
- Location: Minsk, Belarus
- Been thanked: 5 times
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
Never thought about it. Great idea. Opel tigra or ford fiesta has got electric pumps. Need to check prices.
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
ATF won't hurt a universal fuel pump one bit and the temps involved are not much higher than many areas of the desert southwest in the USA.
Huebner VCU controlling a Gen2 Prius Inverter powering an MGR
"Talent is equally distributed but opportunity is not." - Leila Janah
"Talent is equally distributed but opportunity is not." - Leila Janah
- Jack Bauer
- Posts: 3563
- Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:24 pm
- Location: Ireland
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 87 times
- Contact:
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
Anyone experiencing problems running motors in reverse after successful tuning please set fwkp to 0 and try again. Johannes and I are working on this problem. A full tuning and tutorial video can be expected in about a week.
I'm going to need a hacksaw
- Kevin Sharpe
- Posts: 1345
- Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:24 pm
- Location: Ireland and US
- Been thanked: 4 times
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
This is a personal post and I disclaim all responsibility for any loss or damage which any person may suffer from reliance on the information and material in this post or any opinion, conclusion or recommendation in the information and material.
-
- Posts: 898
- Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:40 pm
- Has thanked: 291 times
- Been thanked: 177 times
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
Sweet! An MGR Project. I don't know if I've ever actually seen one.
The MGR is my backup plan for whey my 260lb forklift motor --> transmission --> old differential just doesn't work properly. It's also maybe my plan for the front part of AWD.
Can't wait to see more on this.
But wait... the criticism!
"This will never hold. It's not designed to be used for more than 0.8 seconds or it will turn into the fires of Mordor!"
I dunno, maybe it melts, maybe it's fine. I really really really want to find out just how badly it may or may not need some limited cooling.
The MGR is my backup plan for whey my 260lb forklift motor --> transmission --> old differential just doesn't work properly. It's also maybe my plan for the front part of AWD.
Can't wait to see more on this.
But wait... the criticism!
"This will never hold. It's not designed to be used for more than 0.8 seconds or it will turn into the fires of Mordor!"
I dunno, maybe it melts, maybe it's fine. I really really really want to find out just how badly it may or may not need some limited cooling.
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
IF my damned car would ever get here, it would be very close to on the road!MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:45 pm Sweet! An MGR Project. I don't know if I've ever actually seen one.
Huebner VCU controlling a Gen2 Prius Inverter powering an MGR
"Talent is equally distributed but opportunity is not." - Leila Janah
"Talent is equally distributed but opportunity is not." - Leila Janah
- Kevin Sharpe
- Posts: 1345
- Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:24 pm
- Location: Ireland and US
- Been thanked: 4 times
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
Yeah, just a shame it has to be Damien doing the work once againMattsAwesomeStuff wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:45 pm Sweet! An MGR Project. I don't know if I've ever actually seen one.
This is a personal post and I disclaim all responsibility for any loss or damage which any person may suffer from reliance on the information and material in this post or any opinion, conclusion or recommendation in the information and material.
- konstantin8818
- Posts: 287
- Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:33 pm
- Location: Minsk, Belarus
- Been thanked: 5 times
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
Thank you! Will do. Just need to get rid of spider webs all over mt test setup=)Jack Bauer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:52 pm Anyone experiencing problems running motors in reverse after successful tuning please set fwkp to 0 and try again. Johannes and I are working on this problem. A full tuning and tutorial video can be expected in about a week.
My adapters for BMW's driveschafts are in production now, but job is always before hobby. And deadlines are long goneKevin Sharpe wrote: ↑Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:23 pm Yeah, just a shame it has to be Damien doing the work once again
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
I’m also in the process of sorting driveshafts for mine. The car is converted already so I should be able to test fairly soon once I have the driveshafts done. I’m not going to worry about cooling unless it becomes a problem. The stock car is 700kg with a 660cc 64hp engine so I’m think it will be fine.
- TheSilverBuick
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:01 pm
- Location: Nevada, United States
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 1 time
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
I go away on a 3 week vacation and the MGR topics take off! I'm extra excited to get back to my project. Sadly I'm still on the bottom side of the learning curve and not (yet) able to meaningfully contribute.
On the coolant pumps. I would not run an off the shelf fuel pump with fluids above around 150ºF. I have a feeling the plastics inside most melt around 180ºF. There are dedicated external electric oil pumps people use for remote mounted turbo's. I like the idea on the electric power steering pump. In my case, I plan on using a fan and if needed figure out how to attach some cooling fins.
On the coolant pumps. I would not run an off the shelf fuel pump with fluids above around 150ºF. I have a feeling the plastics inside most melt around 180ºF. There are dedicated external electric oil pumps people use for remote mounted turbo's. I like the idea on the electric power steering pump. In my case, I plan on using a fan and if needed figure out how to attach some cooling fins.
Need to learn. Starting from the basics.
Re: Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle
I realize this is not necessarily a direct comparison, but the ORNL research suggests two things that are important to remember when adapting Toyota drives for EV use.
See Figure 3.14 (aka Pi ) https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/890029
1) The temperature limit of the MG units is VERY high, much higher than normal "engine" temperatures due to presumed "Class H" insulation
2) Higher lube temperature increases drive and thermal rejection efficiency
The publication suggests that the MG units can tolerate 180*C essentially continuously, which is above typical lubricating fluid breakdown temperatures. In fact, rotor temps over 200*C were recorded during testing with no apparent ill effects.
See Figure 3.14 (aka Pi ) https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/890029
1) The temperature limit of the MG units is VERY high, much higher than normal "engine" temperatures due to presumed "Class H" insulation
2) Higher lube temperature increases drive and thermal rejection efficiency
The publication suggests that the MG units can tolerate 180*C essentially continuously, which is above typical lubricating fluid breakdown temperatures. In fact, rotor temps over 200*C were recorded during testing with no apparent ill effects.
Huebner VCU controlling a Gen2 Prius Inverter powering an MGR
"Talent is equally distributed but opportunity is not." - Leila Janah
"Talent is equally distributed but opportunity is not." - Leila Janah