Toyota MGR Rear Traction Transaxle

[sfk]

Thank you. I'll do some more research on this.

[Pajo_16]

From the attached document:

MY19 updates:
o New “PHEV 2.0” Powertrain:
§ New 2.4 Atkinson cycle petrol engine
§ Generator output increased by 10%
§ Rear motor output is increased by 10% to 70 kW (95 ps)
§ Drive battery capacity is increased by 15% to 13.8kWh
§ Drive battery output is increased by 10%
§ Upgraded PHEV Operating System

Looks like we now have the choice of a 50 kW, 64 kW, and a 70 kW electric motor s that are combined with a differential.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DijY73 ... p=drivesdk
*Link permissions updated

[sfk]

Your Google Drive document link requires permission by-the-way.

From what I can tell the Outlander uses an electronic rear axle manufactured by GKN. This same unit could be found in other cars, as well as other similar GKN rear axles found in other cars.

"The company has been producing and developing eAxle technology since 2002. Current vehicles that employ it include the Volvo XC90 and S90, Mitsubishi Outlander, BMW 2-series Active Tourer, BMW i8 and Porsche 918 Spyder. Carmakers typically use GKN eAxles on the rear axle of front-wheel drive platforms to create hybrid eAWD models."

[Pajo_16]

Thanks sfk, link permissions updated.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DijY73 ... p=drivesdk
Before this thread I had no idea there was such a large selection of drives available for us to tinker with.

[arber333]

Thanks sfk, link permissions updated.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DijY73 ... p=drivesdk
Before this thread I had no idea there was such a large selection of drives available for us to tinker with.

I have seen Volvo V60 and XC90 hybrid rear drive, but didnt know its from the same design group. I certainly like the inline axle design.
I have seen reports that both drives are 60kW machine.
https://w3.siemens.com/topics/global/de ... ens_en.pdf

[Kevin Sharpe]

Some fantastic Outlander information Can we start a thread for this and keep this one focused on the MGR?

[Pajo_16]

Source: https://www.toyota-club.net/files/faq/1 ... wd_eng.htm
...also see above live for production vehicles that use each MGR variant.

Toyota MGR naming:
e4WD
AWD-i
E-Four

Toyota Motor Generator (MGR) rear drive module variants:
Q210 (18 kW / 108 Nm)
Q211 (50 kW / 130 Mm or 139 Nm)
Q510 (5.0 kW or 5.3 Nm / 55 Nm)
Q610 (40 kW / 120 Nm)

I wonder where could find a list of all variants?

[sfk]

Great info. Thanks. I wonder if that page should be copied here with pictures so it can't be lost?

[konstantin8818]

I'll bump this thread.
I need to connect Lexus MGR to Johanes's V3 board.
Can anybody tell me if shown picture is correct, or did I missed something?

[slow67]

I'll bump this thread.
I need to connect Lexus MGR to Johanes's V3 board.
Can anybody tell me if shown picture is correct, or did I missed something?
resolver3.jpg

Measure the resistance of the terminals to be sure. The exciter circuit (mrf/mrfg) should be different, and the sin/cos should both have similar resistence.

[konstantin8818]

Measure the resistance of the terminals to be sure. The exciter circuit (mrf/mrfg) should be different, and the sin/cos should both have similar resistence.

Will do. My concern is about MSNG and MCSG are both connected to the same pin, wich provides 1.7V if I understood it correct.

[xp677]

Sounds like a common ground that is at the midpoint of a 3v3 sine wave. Can't see an issue there.

[ZooKeeper]

I cannot thank everyone enough for sharing what they have found/learned about the Q211 and can hardly wait until my Inv/Conv gets here so I can make sure it powers up and is worthy of a DIY board. Then I can perform some basic tests on my Q211/MGR.

[ZooKeeper]

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[Matthew Dresser]

Can anyone tell me the screw thread sizes for the two types of attachment screws on this unit. I measured both but could not work out what sizes. I think the smaller (vertical orientation) are M12 fine, but not 100% sure.

[ZooKeeper]

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[konstantin8818]

Rears are M14x2. At least thread is 2mm, but I'm not shure about diameter. I've got no bolts with such thread.

[Martin1775]

Yes, Konstantin is right, I've done testing with a bolt M14 X 2, when he send the answer.

[Alexstarex]

I do not understand.
which inverter to control this motor

[ZooKeeper]

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[ZooKeeper]

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[celeron55]

I just bought one of these - an RX 400H one - to test out in a conversion. It's another one of my 90s Previas so it has a lot of weight to push around (registered for 2450kg gross weight, about 1750kg kerb weight with the ICE), but I'm more obsessed with retaining the 8 seating positions and all original luggage space than motorsports. I've measured, from my Leaf motored one, that about 45kW is enough to maintain 80-100km/h on the steepest hills they have around here on main roads.

A Toyota van is supposed to be slow. Why ruin the experience by making it fast?

This unit will fit in place of the original rear differential unlike anything else. A Leaf unit won't fit, and neither does an i-Miev unit - they're both too tall. An e-Golf drive unit seems quite tall also, as does the i3 unit. There's a frame part just above where the original differential input flange is that I have no hope of relocating if I want the van road legal.

I'm also ready to bet a 96S pack is plenty of voltage for reaching the required rpm. I might go as low as 80S.

The only problem is going to be torque. I hope I can solve that by giving it more amps than Toyota intended. Toyota makes it put about 950 Nm to the wheels according to what they publish. It's enough to make 2450kg do a 12% climb, which is already fine to me though.

It might require an oil cooler to be able to sustain the 30kW or so that I want it to. In that case I'll attach hoses to the fill and drain plugs and add a pump to circulate oil through a radiator. If even that fails, I'll grab some 4wd Previa parts and add another one to the front axle.

[celeron55]

Has anyone found what the Nm/A value for the Q211 (400h) MGR is?

Some calculations:

610rpm is Toyota's maximum rpm at which 130Nm is still produced.

If you assume the motor requires 650V to reach let's say 10500rpm unloaded, it would reach 610rpm at 35V.

Now 130Nm @ 610rpm equals 11.26kW.

11.26kW / 35V = 322A

322A / 130Nm = 2.5 A / Nm.

Given that it has a gear ratio of 6.859, it would make about 2.74 Nm / A at the axle.

For comparison, the Leaf gen2 transaxle with the stock inverter makes about 4 Nm / A, and given that the inverter is limited to about 500A, you get 2000Nm at the wheels.

So, Toyota rates the Q211 MGR at 1000Nm at the wheels. Based on that calculation, at 360A. If you feed 500A into it, it might make 1370Nm.

I think I might be better off with something beefier than a Prius/Yaris inverter for driving the MGR.

EDIT: That 10500rpm@650V assumption would also mean that for me to reach 100km/h and I need about 6900rpm for that, I need to have a 427V battery pack. 360V will only get me to 85km/h. So, this is going to be interesting.

[arber333]

You should use field weakening then to bring it up to good speed. Your motor torque will weaken though but rpm will make up for it some...

I think cars even lighter ones should have at least 40kW intermittent for climbing hills if you want them to drive on highway.

[ZooKeeper]

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