openinverter forum

Yesterday I completed the last leg of my road trip to Saarland. It was 360 km and I ended up charging 5 times! Let alone I started with a full battery and ended with an empty one. I think that is very unpractical and not really a good range to convince people that EV driving is cool.

Here is what I found out about the various Leaf packs:
- 24 kWh: 48 modules 2P2S 7.2V
- 30 kWh: 24 modules 2P4S 14.4V
- 40 kWh: 24 modules 2P4S 14.4V (Up to here 192 cells total)
- 62 kWh: 24 modules 3P4S 14.4V (288 cells total)

Apparently the 30 and 40 kWh packs are more or less a drop-in replacement as I installed the packs in two equal sized rows. In summer conditions a 75% charged 24 kWh pack gives me about 80km of highway range. A 40 kWh pack would give me 130 km.

The 62 kWh pack would take up more space, I would probably only fit 16 modules under the car and would have to find space for the extra 8 ones.

johu wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:24 pm Apparently the 30 and 40 kWh packs are more or less a drop-in replacement as I installed the packs in two equal sized rows. In summer conditions a 75% charged 24 kWh pack gives me about 80km of highway range. A 40 kWh pack would give me 130 km.

I would argue that this is not the case when pack gets larger. Your safety margin also becomes larger because you cant say exactly if it is 75% or is it 80% SOC.
For example I saw 50km range with Volt gen1 battery which is exactly the same as with Ampera. I then filled it up with 11kWh which is some 66% statistically but in reality with age and wear it is closer to 80% SOC. I charged up to 4V per cell only.

In the case of Mazda Kokam cells i see 31kWh statisticaly but 27kWh with charging to 4V. This gives me about 160km mixed range. 180kwh if i made an effort in summer.

I cant tell with Jaguar 1/2 battery. I still have to put the cell in.

I started to compile a list of OEM battery modules on the wiki: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Batteries#OEM_modules

Hopefully useful. If you find any more details, please add them...

johu wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:24 pm The 62 kWh pack would take up more space, I would probably only fit 16 modules under the car and would have to find space for the extra 8 ones.

The Leaf e+ has the suspension revised to achieve this - it rides higher and has some slightly different lower trim to make up for the point.
The chassis is the same though so in practical terms all that's required is to uprate the springs.

clanger9 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:51 pm I started to compile a list of OEM battery modules on the wiki: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Batteries#OEM_modules

Hopefully useful. If you find any more details, please add them...

I would hazard a guess that Kona and Bolt have practicaly the same 60Ah LG cell as Jaguar IPACE.
In Kona it is NCM622 chemistry configured as 96S3P. https://www.speakev.com/threads/kona-ba ... ec.110601/ In Chevy Bolt there are 96S3P also NMC 622. https://www.techinsights.com/blog/revie ... powertrain
I dont know if this article is assumption or fact https://electricrevs.com/2018/03/09/jag ... in-common/

Oh nice list, didn't know - thanks So I'd be adding 33 kg when upgrading to 40 kWh. Not so much.

Yes I read they made the battery case deeper to fit the extra cells.

clanger9 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:51 pm I started to compile a list of OEM battery modules on the wiki: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Batteries#OEM_modules

NICE! Thanks!!!!

arber333 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:24 pm
I would hazard a guess that Kona and Bolt have practicaly the same 60Ah LG cell as Jaguar IPACE.
In Kona it is NCM622 chemistry configured as 96S3P. https://www.speakev.com/threads/kona-ba ... ec.110601/
20200922_213251.jpg
In Chevy Bolt there are 96S3P also NMC 622. https://www.techinsights.com/blog/revie ... powertrain
I dont know if this article is assumption or fact https://electricrevs.com/2018/03/09/jag ... in-common/
Figure4.jpg

I don't know exactly but those LG cells have caused a lot of trouble lately, some more info: https://www.reuters.com/article/autos-e ... NL4N2HS2FS
Luckily Leafs haven't been recalled yet or have they?

I wonder if this is all true or are the oil and car companies up to their tricks again.
It's claimed oil companies are spending hundreds of millions of dollars spreading disinformation about EV 's to slow down their take up.
I don't doubt it.

I don't doubt it either.
30.000 petrol cars burn in Germany each year. Per driven distance, petrol cars burn 50x more often than EVs. Yet every single burned EV gets excessive press coverage.
A petrol car burns 20 tons of crude oil over its life span, that cannot be recycled, whos remainders end up in our atmosphere heating planet and whos exploitation is far from eco friendly. Yet exploitation of a few kg lithium and cobalt per EV gets mass press coverage.

People thankfully pick that shit up because it lets them rest in their decade old behaviour. Rather educated people have walked up to me saying they bought another petrol car because they don't want to be part of the cobalt problem. Or electricity grid breakdown. Big oil at its best, trying to delay change.

johu wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 11:01 am I don't doubt it either.
30.000 petrol cars burn in Germany each year. Per driven distance, petrol cars burn 50x more often than EVs. Yet every single burned EV gets excessive press coverage.

Nice argumentation with relevant evidence! Good Job.
Last year there were 3 dinosaur burning cars burnt on the side of our highway in the timespan of 2 weeks. On top of that they happened in the space of 300m of the same highway. Poor 12V wiring and inadequate fuses were the reasons etc... Could happen to my Laptop or lathe for that matter too...

Can you fix the thread title 48 to 40 kWh? Was briefly very confused as never heard of a Nissan Leaf battery back at that size

oh, yeah. Title fixed

Yes on our highways you see many burn marks on the side of the road, too.

Now bringing this up again since it kindof turning spring.
Does the 40 kWh BMS talk the same CAN language as the 24/30 kWh one? Because I read you need to do some CAN spoofing to fit a 40 pack in a 24 Leaf.

johu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:08 pm Now bringing this up again since it kindof turning spring.
Does the 40 kWh BMS talk the same CAN language as the 24/30 kWh one? Because I read you need to do some CAN spoofing to fit a 40 pack in a 24 Leaf.

Nope, 40kWh LBC won't talk to the legacy VCM. Requires a MITM.
Muxsan and EV's Enchanced have solutions off the shelf (I used the former).

If you're up for the challenge, no reason why Damien's one wouldn't work just as well.

You'll need to capture the battery ID codes from the old pack one way or the other in order to keep the VCM happy.

Ah sorry, should give a bit of context. I have the Leaf pack in my Touran conversion and the stm32-car does the BMS communication. So no ID code rubbish to worry about. Just wondering if the CAN bit mapping remained the same or similar.

Aha - the specifics of the differences I'm no use for unfortunately.