[DRIVING] VW Touran powered by Nissan Leaf [FINISHED]

[Jack Bauer]

The very same thing happened to me back in the day. All my type 2 ac and chademo ports now have the locking tab removed via a dremel.

[arber333]

The very same thing happened to me back in the day. All my type 2 ac and chademo ports now have the locking tab removed via a dremel.

As are mine! I dare you ask me how i know!
Usually most people will not bother hot EVSE plug, and with Mazda i have one more deterrent. My charger schreches like 1000 angry bees "dont mess with me". In the case they urgently need to charge they unplug and leave a message anyway.

[johu]

I gather from that it's a common EVSE fault?

I should also mention that the charge port relays were kept closed as I was told by the hot dropper resistors. And finally while the car was connected SoC dropped from 15% to 10% almost as if the EVSE sucked power out of the battery.

[johu]

Have some more numbers on yesterday's trip. According to my charge log I charged 47.5 kWh via DC and it took 21 kWh to charge back to full. So 68.5 kWh for 365 km is 187 Wh per km. The car reported 168 so 10% under-reported. Which makes sense as it senses the power under discharge including the voltage sag and the charger calculates power including the voltage rise which is significant at 50kW. I think all EVs calculate this way so numbers are still comparable.

[johu]

Worked on the heater: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1147 . In short I added a PWM controlled PTC heater that gets as much current as it takes to sag the 12V system to 13.2V. The heater slotted in nicely as the Diesel versions have a PTC heater anyway.

I also measured the energy off the wall it takes to charge the empty battery to full: 20.3 kWh. The charger is quite efficient, so it looks like I have about 20 kWh of usable energy.

[JaniK]

Good for you, you have a better SOH than my leaf
I have 17,6kWh usable left. I get Max. 120km in summer @80kmh average GPS speed. 100% to turtle

[Bigpie]

With your stm32-car software, will OUT_DCSW be 12v when the inverter is in run mode? Thinking this would be good to use to enable the power steering pump (from a Zafira)

[johu]

Well, software has little to do with that I have implemented it in hardware as an open collector, i.e. switched ground because that is easiest to do. If you want to convert switched ground to switched 12V, you have two possibilities:
- a relay
- A PMOS transistor that you pull up to 12V with like 1k and that is pulled down by your switched ground (and thus enabled)

I've actually done the latter for the output relay of my DC-DC converter and it works well.

[Bigpie]

I'll go with a relay as I have loads of them laying around.

[johu]

So, biig Touran update.

First, the road trip. Drove a total of 1200 km last week. Lots of charging needed, must be the cold weather. I started with batteries cooled down to 3°C. I drove quickly to the first quick charge stop after just 70 km and by then they had reached 18°C. They will charge at 50 kW at that temp but not for long. At around 40% it throttled down to 30 kW and when it reached 10 kW at 70% I decided to leave.
Batteries did rather cool down 3-4°C while driving between the charge stops and heated by around 10°C when being charged. So not rapid gating problem, rather cold gating.
All went well on that first leg. When driving the final stretch from Mannheim to Neunkirchen (about 130 km) I decided to try if I could go 96 km on a full battery. I passed the charger at Kaiserslautern (which I don't favour because you have to drive into the city) with 35% and 25 km to go. After the last possibility to get off I noticed the voltages looked rather low, like 3.4V under light load. But SoC was still 20%, so WTF? Well it was no good, I just reached the exit with the BMS commanding 0 kW power limit and the lowest voltage being 2.4V.
So exit reached, but not the charger. That was still 2 km away. The gas station where I was stranded had a 400V 3-phase outlet and let me use it (with rich mans charger). Just that - the outlet was dead.
I took one more look at the charger map. A type-2 charger was advertised just 500m away. I decided to give that a try. With the help of a gentle push I made it in front of the hotel with charger. Which --- didn't work. The guy from the hotel even tried his own RFID but even that was rejected.
I bailed out and called by father to drive 30 km to Landstuhl (where I was at) and give me the short tow to the fast charger.
Had to trick the inverter into starting as udcsw was too high for the depleted battery. During the tow I sucked some amps from his e-Golf via regen and was at least able to drive up to the fast charger myself

Similar thing happened on the way back. At 15% the battery is essentially empty, not sure why the BMS doesn't correct the reading. Maybe the current sensor just doesn't match the BMS? It is a Gen2 sensor on a Gen1 BMS. But then, when charging from ChaDeMo the EVSE and BMS currents do match up. Weird.

So on the way back it turned out the road was closed just 1 km before my charge stop. Again the battery was so depleted that I got a serious power limit and I just made it to a type-2 station which actually worked. Charged just enough to make it to the next fast charger.

Not so happy about the BMS situation because that seriously throws off my charge planning. Maybe I should just get a 40 kWh battery with a matching BMS.
On the plus side every single fast charge session worked and no charger was ever blocked.

DC-DC Upgrade
I took reception of an Ampera DC-DC converter, thanks Arber I has a 12V enable and CAN. I found CAN on the dangling round connector that used to connect to the PDM (aka bigass Nissan charger). Also made sure to put switched 12V on there. Operation is governed by CAN message 0x1D4 - which is also used by the Nissan BMS But lucky me, DC-DC used the first 2 bytes, Nissan the last 2 bytes and there seems to be no unwanted effect. Only downside for me as a software perfectionist: I now have DC-DC code in the BMS module...
Programmed it to enable the DC-DC 1s after closing the contactors. Voltage is now really stable at 13.8V no matter which loads I switch on. Still not getting much power on the PTC, will need to check that separately.

Humming drivetrain
Over the trip the drive train developed an alarming vibration at around 3000 rpm. Turned out the motor mount had come loose, more precisely the one bolt that connects the Nissan bracket to my custom bracket. While at it I also cut back the Nissan bracket a bit more so now the mount doesn't touch the chassis. Test drive confirmed that everything is back to smooth.

Amen.

[arber333]

Good find about that ID. I rather thought you would use your inverter to command 0x1D4 ID to DCDC.
The way i used it was constant stream of CAN bus data at 100kbaud and i just connected 12V at 2nd key position. That way precharge has already happened and i got 14V and working vacuum pump before i started main DC contactor.
I kept DCDC permanently connected through a 20A HV fuse.

Ya... i also had a similar road trip the first time. I was stranded 1km from EVSE and i got a tow too. When i arrived there my shaddy charging system wouldnt engage CP from that particular station. I solved that the old fashion way by faking resistor pair in my socket. Now i am much happier with PP sensing system instead of CP. I also hope to make a chademo system soon. Then we will come visit you with true EV .

[RetroZero]

Are you running 48kWh ( 2 packs)?..

[johu]

Are you running 48kWh ( 2 packs)?..

No, still 24 kWh. I'm eager to swap it for a 40 kWh pack.

Bolted the DC-DC in yesterday. 3 bolts through 90° angle on the inverter, 2 bolts to DC-DC just on one side. it is a bit wobbly, might add another restrain on the right. The fins are exactly opposite of the former air intake, so I'm hoping cooling will be sufficient from the natural air stream. Maybe a duct would be a good idea also.

The car uses about 20A in standby, head lights add another 10A and of course the heater adds many amps. Since that is not active in summer, I think passive cooling should be adequate.

[Boxster EV]

Are you running 48kWh ( 2 packs)?..

No, still 24 kWh. I'm eager to swap it for a 40 kWh pack.

Bolted the DC-DC in yesterday. 3 bolts through 90° angle on the inverter, 2 bolts to DC-DC just on one side. it is a bit wobbly, might add another restrain on the right. The fins are exactly opposite of the former air intake, so I'm hoping cooling will be sufficient from the natural air stream. Maybe a duct would be a good idea also.

The car uses about 20A in standby, head lights add another 10A and of course the heater adds many amps. Since that is not active in summer, I think passive cooling should be adequate.

I have the same DCDC as you and have it mounted 'outside' in the old fuel tank area with no additional cooling (plastic undertrays of car protect it from splashes). It's been fine for the past 8 months / 3000 miles. It only draws about 30 amps with everything switched on including heating fans, wipers and lights

[johu]

Ok, thats rather encouraging to hear. Seems I now have a fanless car

[m.art.y]

Johannes, would you share a bit more how can you charge from type2 public charger since you don't have a nissan charger on board? I know you have your own handmade charger but you are not using that with type2 only with regular 3 phase? Are you using inverter as charger? If so can this be done with Prius gen3 inverter and synchronous motor? Thank you

[johu]

Yes, I use this adapter cable and rich mans charger

I also have a Type-2 to Schuko adapter for poor mans charger.

Both chargers have CHAdeMO output and thereby interface to the car.

You can build a charger from Prius inverter
Gen2: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1070
Gen3: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=825

I wouldn't bother using the motor as an inductor with Prius convrters as they have a purpose built inductor anyway.
Whether you put it in the car or outside is a matter of taste. None of these provide galvanic isolation so at least a GFCI is a must.

[johu]

Now I took the chance of some real winter here to check what the Nissan BMS thinks of cold temperatures. I will check again tonight because now it was only -7°C. It's supposed to be -17°C tonight.
Result: Discharge limit 105 kW (normally 110) and Charge limit 15 kW. SoC 25%. I think the charge limit is still quite respectable.

I can't drive right now because half a meter of snow piled up behind the car plus summer tires.

[johu]

Repeated this morning. Instrument cluster showed -16°C outside temp, but battery pack reported -9°C to my disappointment. Discharge limit 98 kW, charge limit still 15 kW.

[vin]

It's done
Picked up Touran from TÜV today.
I would say it was not so hard. Just a bit pricey at roughly 600€, 300 of which were for the rather redundant noise test.

This is brilliant, Does anyone know what the equivalent for that is in London England?

[vin]

Final step done - E-Kennzeichen

Almost a bit boring with nothing left to do I will wrap the damaged chrome grill in blue. Maybe I will fit an android "radio" like Shane.

John what did you do for power-steering in the Touran?

[johu]

It's electric, I could use it as is. More info here: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Touran_Conversion

[vin]

It's electric, I could use it as is. More info here: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Touran_Conversion

Ok, Does it have an ECU? I'm trying to figure out how to initiate my BMW e90's steering rack, it's electric. It tends to come alive while driving, however it's not active when I turn on the ignition.

[johu]

Ok, Does it have an ECU?

It reads the CAN bus. It will work without any CAN messages, but once I put rpm on the bus it must be greater 600 rpm or so.

[Dilbert]

It's electric, I could use it as is. More info here: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Touran_Conversion

Ok, Does it have an ECU? I'm trying to figure out how to initiate my BMW e90's steering rack, it's electric. It tends to come alive while driving, however it's not active when I turn on the ignition.

I'm interested in this also, the steering rack is quite high current, so the EPS module will be checking that the engine is running, i would imagine it would do one of the following:-
1) Its looking for an S15 (ignition) signal, over CAN
2) Its looking at the engine tach signal, over CAN
3) Its looking for a message from the smart battery charging, to show there's power available.

I'm not sure which of the above it is, but it might be worth getting a CAN log from a working E90, from the CAN bus with the EPS. Then try a "replay" attack to replay it to the vehicle and see when the rack starts to take current.

I think the ignition signal and tach signals are well defined in DBC files out there, so it might be worth sending them signals first before investigating item 3.

I know the EPS can also request additional power from the alternator, as in some situations it needs additional voltage to meet the steering demand.

It might be worth starting a new thread on this topic, over in the BMW part of the forum.