[WIP] Leaf to VW Type 2 Campervan

[ianlighting]

On the Daihatsu Rocky I made a longer tunnel just to keep the motor and PDM clear of the firewall. This worked fine.
I welded on the center of the clutch plate to a tube which had the input shaft of the Leaf gearbox welded onto it.
As there is little to no vibration the shaft simply stayed in place without wobbling of vibrating.

However, I guess BratIndustries could make a longer shaft, on request. Otherwise I know someone who might also be able to make it for you.

For the extension you could simply add more alu plates, sandwiched onto each other.

Thanks for the ideas. I’ll give it some thought.

[ianlighting]

I’ve been thinking…

I think I need to revisit my Plan A for placing the PDM on the petrol tank shelf. I reckon it will work. The problem is not the PDM shape or available space, it’s that the HV cables are all routed downwards from the overhanging section. It is not the PDM itself that stops it fitting, it’s the cables.

If the cables came out horizontally from the upper half of the PDM, where the cables connect to the internal copper bus bars, there would be no problem (I think). The upside L shape of the PDM should slot over the shape of the inverter if the cables weren’t there. I kind of knew all this, but my brain has been slow to process what is obvious.

If I was to create my own lid (which would also probably save me a bit of vertical height which would be useful), I could add in my own connection points or exit points (to be defined in detail). Or even if I cut holes in the original lid, I could achieve the same.

The benefits
- I’m back to a central position, which pleases me aesthetically.
- I can use existing bolt holes around the petrol tank space for a mounting frame, which will please the DVLA.
- I avoid the various other thoughts I’ve had for mounting in many other sub-optimal places.

I’d have to route cables for Chademo, main HV battery, AC charge, and HV battery comms with my new approach.
A little thought needed on the water cooling routing, but think it will be ok.

If anyone think this is a horrendous idea let me know. But I like it and have a good feeling about it.

I don’t intend to pull the Leaf motor out just to test this right now. I’ll probably wait until I’m ready to do my blue van. That way I can continue to impress visitors with wheel spins on my driveway in the disaster-bus. This is very important.

[Romale]

why are you subjugating yourself with this huge, clumsy PDM?
take a small compact dc/dc from the pdm leaf gen1, and anything else as a charger. you can use a Tesla 3, you can use an outlander, or you can simply charge the battery through a power inverter in conjunction with the motor, if it is controlled by a replacement johu board v3, you will save a lot of space and simplify your work very much.

[ianlighting]

why are you subjugating yourself with this huge, clumsy PDM?
take a small compact dc/dc from the pdm leaf gen1, and anything else as a charger. you can use a Tesla 3, you can use an outlander, or you can simply charge the battery through a power inverter in conjunction with the motor, if it is controlled by a replacement johu board v3, you will save a lot of space and simplify your work very much.

I am sure you are correct on everything you say. And perhaps the next project I will follow a different path like you suggest. But for my first one, everything is an unknown to me. I am reducing the number of questions in my head by sticking to these predetermined lumps. Perhaps that introduces its own complexities and challenges, but it feels an easier, and safer path for me to follow at the stage I am at.

[ianlighting]

I’ve added a question in the OEM / Nissan Leaf section about running the coolant through the PDM in reverse. It would help my coolant routing and from Johannes tear down video I don’t think it looks to be a problem, but opinions welcome!

viewtopic.php?t=5726

[Bratitude]

As Roman said, if the pdm dosnt fit, don’t bother. It’s an ugly u it to implement in any other fashion than stock.

The outlander OBC is an excellent alternative. It’s a simple box with a charger and dcdc. Runs from the zombie as is. Small and would mount in the engine bay no problem, likely would fit on top of the inverter. A price of L channel aluminum is all you need to bolt it on top.
This is what I have running in my Datsun.

The pdm s are worth a lot because the fast charge contactors often blow in the leafs, so they are sought after for repairs. You’ll be able to get a good chunk of change back for it.

[ianlighting]

Like my unleaded electricity charge port?

My ‘late bay’ doesn’t have a flap, only a turny cap that is flush with the body. So this cut out from an ‘early bay’ a couple of years earlier is a much nicer way to hide and present a charge port IMO.

Upside down picture I’m afraid.

[marcexec]

Can you not install it upside down? With the charger plug we want liquids (rain) flow away from the car

[ianlighting]

Can you not install it upside down? With the charger plug we want liquids (rain) flow away from the car

Yes you’re right if course.

Might not be obvious from the photos, but the mount / hole for the petrol cap / EV charge port is angle 45deg from vertical. Plus the Leaf’s cables already come with plastic click shut lids, which would be behind the VW’s metal flap, so I think right way up would be ok. But will give it more thought when I get to that stage.

[ianlighting]

I’ve started a thread in the Nissan section to cover the 60kWh battery I’m dissecting for this project.

Will show photos, dimensions, weights plus a handful of other useful links I’ve found around the internet.
viewtopic.php?p=77592#p77592

[ianlighting]

I now know the modules, not including bus bars and other odds and ends will weigh (edit, cocked up number I showed here before) 335kg. I will need to add the box to that, so rounding up to 400 kg for now.

VW T2 has payload of 800kg, so not a problem.

[Buggyboyshane]

Ian, after seeing something on you tube, and then googling - i found this thread, and I have signed up to open inverter specifically to follow this thread lol. I run a restoration business in Northern Ireland, specifically working on classic vw and Porsche. I have been interested in Electric vehicles for a while now and have some level 3 courses in electric vehicles etc, but this post is a real life application for me of how this could work in a vw

It’s all your fault lol….. I have been spending last week looking at Nissan leaf donors. Could I ask a few things? Even if you wish to pm if possible , but I suppose other people could learn too.

What year of leaf is a good donor? I’m thinking battery safety etc, with recalls on battery safety etc. I’m trying to figure out the years for gen 2 etc… but around 2014 I’m thinking?

Battery size- is there different specs on batteries available on these? Or is it one size fits all. And physical size of these… are you making your own battery box etc?

How can I assess the battery to see if it’s in good shape?

I’m going to use the same management etc as you, and I like the way you’ve broken down the steps makes it look too easy! Perhaps we could get in contact and we can help each other, I can help out with the vw end and you help me with the ev lol

Many thanks

Shane

[ianlighting]

Ian, after seeing something on you tube, and then googling - i found this thread, and I have signed up to open inverter specifically to follow this thread lol. I run a restoration business in Northern Ireland, specifically working on classic vw and Porsche. I have been interested in Electric vehicles for a while now and have some level 3 courses in electric vehicles etc, but this post is a real life application for me of how this could work in a vw

It’s all your fault lol….. I have been spending last week looking at Nissan leaf donors. Could I ask a few things? Even if you wish to pm if possible , but I suppose other people could learn too.

What year of leaf is a good donor? I’m thinking battery safety etc, with recalls on battery safety etc. I’m trying to figure out the years for gen 2 etc… but around 2014 I’m thinking?

Battery size- is there different specs on batteries available on these? Or is it one size fits all. And physical size of these… are you making your own battery box etc?

How can I assess the battery to see if it’s in good shape?

I’m going to use the same management etc as you, and I like the way you’ve broken down the steps makes it look too easy! Perhaps we could get in contact and we can help each other, I can help out with the vw end and you help me with the ev lol

Many thanks

Shane

Hi Shane,

Happy to share. But I would definitely put myself on about rung 2 of a 10 rung ladder of knowledge. Most people on this site are taking the harder and more knowledgable path. Probably the biggest lesson I’d share is never believe anything some bloke on the internet tells you, especially when the thing they’re talking about doesn’t work yet and they’re doing it themselves for the first time!

The true leaders of this stuff like Damian Maguire and Johannes Hubner, I didn’t even know about them when I started my journey. The knowledge I’d picked up from others was probably built on the trail blazing they (and no doubt others also) had done originally.

You’re asking fair questions, and no disrespect but there should be LOADs of good info available if the Leaf is your starting point. This site (look under the Nissan Leaf section), plus other places, some of which I linked to early on in my thread.

I’d suggest you need to start on deciding what controller /VCU you want to use. Sounds like you want to use Resolve-EV? I’ve explained my reasons for my choice. Most people on this site are not doing the same as that. Every decision you make will open and/or close other choices.

If you’ve got a healthy respect for HV and you’ve done the course, fair play. If anyone else reads this, do the same - HV kills.

So… Leaf year - depends! What are you hoping to achieve regarding battery? Single biggest question after VCU.

If you get an early 2011 Leaf, motor will likely be fine. But Resolve-EV starts (from memory) about 2014. If that’s the direction you’re going, digest all the documentation on their website.

The Leaf you choose, if early will likely have a heavily degraded 24kWh battery will be useless for a T2 campervan (by useless I mean will not provide a useful range to travel to far off places. If you want to go to the local shops it’ll be fine, but you may as well just use the Leaf as-is)

So work out the range you or your customer wants. That equates to kWh. That equates to cost and weight. Does it fit the budget?

I reckon I’ll be spending about £10k and that includes a 62kWh Leaf battery which I got separately for a v good price of £3800. Other quotes out there are more likely £5k ish.

I tested the one I found by taking an overly complex set of wires from my initial setup in a large plastic box plus a 12v battery and iPad running Leaf Spy to check SoH.

Yes, I’ll build a battery box. It’ll be under the bench seat.

I’ve given you more questions than answers I’m guessing. In my case, I probably spent 12 months watching and learning internet and YT. And I later found I’d only just scratched the surface. Don’t jump in too soon. Spend a lot longer working out the shape of what you want and how to do it. And don’t put too much faith in me until you see I’ve got a working vehicle that has passed the tests and has driven for a while!

Not trying to put you off, but I don’t want you to think it’s too easy! I can’t promise that will be true. So far, not to bad, but it’s still early days.

Shame you’re not local though. Would have happily worked together as I’m sure there’s plenty of resto work you could have helped with.

Don’t know if that helps you, ask again if there’s something else.

EDIT - if you want to learn the different Leaf battery sizes, there’s a good summary video from EVS Enhanced from NZ on YouTube. They don’t do conversion in our sense, they support Leafs. But it’s a good way to learn what’s available on different years.


Cheers
Ian

[jrbe]

Buggyboyshane, welcome. I'd suggest learning by searching this site as well as others. Also search out the wiki on this site and search there as well.

Once you're ready check out viewtopic.php?t=5714

Then the suggestion is to start your own thread to not clutter up someone else's.
In yours, try to limit your questions to around 3 or so. Super wordy posts can get exhausting. Usually your list of questions can be broken up into multiple posts in that thread as you go and as people respond and your understanding grows.
Your questions may overlap someone else's post. Feel free to ask questions specific to their build in their thread but try to not take over their thread with it.

[Buggyboyshane]

Ian that's great yes I'll digest and get back on it, my main worry is the battery, I see the leafspy app is good and watching some channels I can see how the dash can tell the amount of degradation of original battery, so did you buy a full donor vehicle or collection of parts? I've spotted a 2014 locally, damaged at rear for 350.. soooooo tempted lol

Jrbe point taken many thanks, I'll take that on the chin and start a thread.

I'm not doing the build as part of my business but as a personal challenge to push myself

[ianlighting]

Ian that's great yes I'll digest and get back on it, my main worry is the battery, I see the leafspy app is good and watching some channels I can see how the dash can tell the amount of degradation of original battery, so did you buy a full donor vehicle or collection of parts? I've spotted a 2014 locally, damaged at rear for 350.. soooooo tempted lol

Jrbe point taken many thanks, I'll take that on the chin and start a thread.

I'm not doing the build as part of my business but as a personal challenge to push myself

Most likely you will get a decent motor and a battery you can use to play with. That’s a good start until you work out what you really need for your project. If you’re ready to jump in and learn as you go at the risk you may change your ideas as you learn, go for it. If budget is tight, wait until you have properly worked out what your project needs to achieve.

[ianlighting]

Question - anyone care to sanity check a basic question please?

I’m taking apart a Leaf 60kWh battery (link to the dissection is a few posts earlier up the page) and planning my new battery box.

Nissan’s bus bars are 1.6mm x 20mm. So does this mean an equivalent diameter cable of 32mm2 would be a suitable replacement where I cannot reuse busbars? I see Fellten do 35mm2, so I assume this would work?

Just want to check there’s no other considerations I should taking into account.

[Bratitude]

Nissan’s bus bars are 1.6mm x 20mm. So does this mean an equivalent diameter cable of 32mm2 would be a suitable replacement where I cannot reuse busbars? I see Fellten do 35mm2, so I assume this would work?

generally yes thats fine, but

Two things to consider when selecting wire gauge and observing what oem’s use:

1. Cable length, resistance increases the longer the run

2.heat dissipation. Is the cable in open air, any active air flow? What insulating properties are around it? Etc

calculate the required ampacity of the cable based off of the load running through it.

[ianlighting]

Hmmm…

I had a plan for battery box and location. But having moved forward with that I’m no longer convinced I’m doing the right thing.

Plan A
- single battery box
- under bench seat in passenger compartment
- meant no extra cabling or safety measures for a 2nd battery box
- but I knew it would be pushing at what’s reasonable in dimensions.
- width. Constrained by the rock and roll bed’s brackets and the width of the bus.
- depth. Not a show stopper, but eating into the passenger space isn’t ideal
- height. Impacts on whether the bed is level with the rear parcel shelf, although I’m ok to accommodate this with a thicker rear cushion.

But having made up a frame, I just think it is too tall for the space. It’s fine as a bench in its own right, but within the bus it’s too tall.

Why so tall? Because I’m using all the Leaf’s modules, their heights are (approx) 120mm (x8), 200mm (x4), 250mm (x4). I worked out a plan that placed a short module on all of the medium and tall modules, and the wiring path to do this. It all ‘fitted’, but having got this far I don’t like the results.

Diagram, might look confusing, but helps me picture the plan. Helps to understand the 2nd diagram has the modules rotated 45deg so I can more easily illustrate the connections. Makes sense to me.
Red = short reused Leaf busbars.
Blue = new cable
Green = same new cable, but going somewhere other than another module.

So Plan B?

Rough thoughts…
Ditch the double decker battery module arrangement.
split the battery pack, I guess at the mid point where the service disconnect is.
Means, some HV and BMS cabling crossing from back of compartment to the front.
Means more safety concerns, cos I really don’t like the idea of HV cabling crossing that space, but may have to accept it.
Means another box behind the front bulkheads (but within the passenger compartment as the first one.


Not fixed on this Plan B, still pondering….

Edit - There’s a gotcha with Plan B. If I am to stick with the DVLA’s ‘no drill, no weld’ rule, I dont know how I will secure the 2nd battery box… I’ll have another look, maybe I overlooked an OEM bolt hole….

*Diabolical welding - first time - will improve!

EDIT 2 - the plan in the diagram would not work as shown. Found out the other day that Nissan reversed the polarity of the short modules compared to the tall and medium modules! Doubt anyone was planning to follow me, but just in case - don’t!

[ianlighting]

Battery Plan B - thoughts.

Extending BMS wiring. I must have seen and read dozens of Leaf based conversions that use the original BMS+ Modules. I don’t recall anyone having specific issues with extended BMS wires. In my case it’s probably 50% of the modules being placed approx 1 meter further way.

Extended HV cables. As above, 1 meter there, another meter back again. Will do some maths…

Securing. See highly detailed technical drawing below.
- Blue lines is roughly what was planned for Plan A / battery box #1.
- Green lines is an extension for battery box #2.
- small circles indicate VW OEM bolt holes for the original bench seats when in mini bus mode.

Consider those lines a kind of chassis below the battery box itself. I had planned this arrangement for the first box because the floor’s bolt holes would be below the box itself. I was / am intending to cut a small square hole to bolt the box down to the bolt holes. Then seamseal a steel plate over the hole once done.

Now, with box #2 in the plan, I can extend the idea. There are no specific holes against the forward bulkheads, but there are holes mid way along (green circles). A single chassis that has multiple bolt holes is good. I just need to consider whether I can add to that with further securing against the bulkheads themselves. I expect something will occur to me.

A benefit of this chassis base is that I’m creating a nice 20mm (ish) cavity for my cabling, esp the HV that I was concerned about.

This 2nd box is probably the right approach.
I think I had avoided the 2nd batt box for a few reasons. Chief amongst them being I had no welding experience so was doubly concerned about doing a second box before I’d even started the first. But having done my first (diabolically bad, but solid enough) attempt, it seems a bit more achievable now.

Batt module arrangement / orientation still TBD though.

[johu]

Both conversions I worked on have skewed voltage readings with extended tap wires. Although one meter split in the middle has better chances

[ianlighting]

So exploring my batt box Plan B further, I would be keen to place 3 of the short modules vertically, sat on their rear end, as shown.

Does anyone know of any reason why this should not be done?

[Bratitude]

why not just start with a simple box.. just 2 rows of modules. reuse the stock busbars and what not. simple steel frame. make it a bench seat for now and then tackle everything else. getting to lost in trying to stuff modules in weird places , multiple boxes with a master bms is a recipe for disaster.
KISS for now. you shouldnt have to modify the bms leads, or anything.

[marcexec]

+1 Get it going first.
Learn while you can (at least partially) enjoy it already.
It will do wonders to your motivation. Safety first obviously.

[ianlighting]

+1 Get it going first.
Learn while you can (at least partially) enjoy it already.
It will do wonders to your motivation. Safety first obviously.

Got ‘it’ going in October already, if the trial diasaster-bus counts - go back a page
That was the point of that beta version. So this is the proper job version. Motivation isn’t the issue, just the odd knowledge gap.

But appreciate yours, and Bratitude’s advice. Im always willing to bend ideas or chuck out and improve, but I really intend to get this constructed well enough to pass dvla, and although other things could change, I don’t want to muck about with refactoring batteries and the bus interior once I’ve firmed up the plan.

Plan B is progressing…!