Does anyone know anything about the Kona / Niro ptc heater?
Im weighing up my options for heating, and the Kona PTC heater is attractive as I have a Kona, so I can do some comparisons, and I am favouring the idea of replacing the heater core rather than using an external heater (outlander, for example) connected to the stock heater core.
Befor i go any further, I was was wondering if anyone has a pinout for it, or has used it in their conversions and whether there are any gotchas for using it?
Steve
Niro / Kona PTC heater
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projectgus
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Re: Niro / Kona PTC heater
Hi steve,
I have one of these heaters (the one used 2017-2022) and intend to use it in my project, but I haven't got up to this part yet. It's CAN controlled by the AC control module (FATC), there's a dedicated CAN bus named COMP-CAN that has FATC, the AC compressor, and the PTC heater on it.
If you feel like doing some reversing, there's a log here of both PCAN and COMP-CAN buses where we were turning the heating and AC on and off.
In the logs on the PCAN bus, message ID 0x5CB (sent by FATC) has a signal with the climate control SetPoint in it so you should see it going to the high and low extremes. As this happens the COMP-CAN bus messages should show FATC starting the AC compressor or the heater, depending on the setpoint.
Looks like I made a very basic start on decoding the COMP-CAN messages here: https://github.com/projectgus/kona-ev-d ... can.dbc#L4 - but not really anything there yet. Will post again if I get back to it. If you look into it then please share what you find!
Low voltage control connector is 6 pins KET MG641107-5. Pins are numbered in two rows right to left.
I don't know how Interlock + and - works yet, but these pins are connected to matching Interlock + and - pins on the FATC module. Unsure which side is reading the interlock status or what signals "OK".
I have one of these heaters (the one used 2017-2022) and intend to use it in my project, but I haven't got up to this part yet. It's CAN controlled by the AC control module (FATC), there's a dedicated CAN bus named COMP-CAN that has FATC, the AC compressor, and the PTC heater on it.
If you feel like doing some reversing, there's a log here of both PCAN and COMP-CAN buses where we were turning the heating and AC on and off.
In the logs on the PCAN bus, message ID 0x5CB (sent by FATC) has a signal with the climate control SetPoint in it so you should see it going to the high and low extremes. As this happens the COMP-CAN bus messages should show FATC starting the AC compressor or the heater, depending on the setpoint.
Looks like I made a very basic start on decoding the COMP-CAN messages here: https://github.com/projectgus/kona-ev-d ... can.dbc#L4 - but not really anything there yet. Will post again if I get back to it. If you look into it then please share what you find!
High voltage connector appears to be TE AMP part number 2103177-1. Plug seems easy to buy which is nice, and datasheets/drawings/etc publicly available. I have a note saying positive is Pin 1, but I have not confirmed this or figured out how to identify it on the connector...a pinout for it,
Low voltage control connector is 6 pins KET MG641107-5. Pins are numbered in two rows right to left.
- 12V, powered when IG3 is on, 10A fuse (shared with FATC power) (red)
- COMP-CAN High (brown)
- COMP-CAN Low (white)
- Interlock + (yellow)
- Interlock - (grey)
- Ground (black)
I don't know how Interlock + and - works yet, but these pins are connected to matching Interlock + and - pins on the FATC module. Unsure which side is reading the interlock status or what signals "OK".
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steveknox
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Re: Niro / Kona PTC heater
Amazing. This is a great start, thanks. As soon as i get a chance I'll hook it up(after confirming the polarity!) and start sending some CAN. I'll report back my findings.
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Outlander Charger
Renault Kangoo 36kwh pack
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steveknox
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Re: Niro / Kona PTC heater
Sitrep:
This morning i took some logs from the the heater CAN bus on my 2020 Kona by tapping directly to the heater CAN. Attached are the logs.
I powered up my test heater with 12v, and received the 0x140 and 0x141 message IDS from it, confirming that it's communicating, and confirming that the logs contain 140 and 141 IDs.
I supplied 120v from a DC power supply to the HV.
I then replayed the 'heater on' logs to the heater hoping to see some current being drawn from the 120v supply. Nothing.
I played around with all combinations of the HVIL. Nothing
Not sure where to go from here.
This morning i took some logs from the the heater CAN bus on my 2020 Kona by tapping directly to the heater CAN. Attached are the logs.
I powered up my test heater with 12v, and received the 0x140 and 0x141 message IDS from it, confirming that it's communicating, and confirming that the logs contain 140 and 141 IDs.
I supplied 120v from a DC power supply to the HV.
I then replayed the 'heater on' logs to the heater hoping to see some current being drawn from the 120v supply. Nothing.
I played around with all combinations of the HVIL. Nothing
Not sure where to go from here.
- Attachments
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- heating_start_27_end_17_increment_half_degree.csv
- (1.41 MiB) Downloaded 15 times
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- heating_on_starting_17_finish_27_increment_half_egree.csv
- (1.49 MiB) Downloaded 15 times
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- heating_on_off.csv
- (1.2 MiB) Downloaded 15 times
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- heating_on.csv
- (493.73 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
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- heating_off.csv
- (772.24 KiB) Downloaded 15 times
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- ac_on_off.csv
- (921.47 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
Mazda RX-8
GS450h Running Gear
Outlander Charger
Renault Kangoo 36kwh pack
GS450h Running Gear
Outlander Charger
Renault Kangoo 36kwh pack
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tom91
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Re: Niro / Kona PTC heater
That is way too low for most modern 350-400V components. I have a 1A 400V DC power supply I use, most have a hardware lockout under 200-250V.
I recommend going for atleast 300V for testing.
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projectgus
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Re: Niro / Kona PTC heater
Hi Steve, great progress! I didn't see your post until just now, but as it happens I was looking at the COMP_CAN logs yesterday (mostly for AC) and picked out what I think is the heater control message on ID 0x111:
https://github.com/projectgus/kona-ev-d ... can.dbc#L5
It's pretty simple, one bit seems to be on/off and then there's what looks like a target temperature for the core in C.
Also dug out some of the status signals sent by the PTC. If it's still not coming to life then you could check for possible alarm bits that yours is sending, but my money would be on undervoltage lockout same as tom.
https://github.com/projectgus/kona-ev-d ... can.dbc#L5
It's pretty simple, one bit seems to be on/off and then there's what looks like a target temperature for the core in C.
Also dug out some of the status signals sent by the PTC. If it's still not coming to life then you could check for possible alarm bits that yours is sending, but my money would be on undervoltage lockout same as tom.