Orion BMS and CCS

[MoonUnit]

I would love to hear from anyone who's integrated an Orion BMS with CCS.

I'm looking at a solution for low voltage packs (sub 200V), and my plan is to boost said volage to the c. 400V for a CCS EVSE to work with.

I run an Orion to handle my normal on board charger, and I need to talk to someone who has experience of interfacing the Orion with both an onboard charger (with normal CP/PP J1772 protocol) but also allowing for a second, CCS-type charge (to be handled by a CCS solution like BMW LIM, Uhi22 etc.)

Thanks in advance.

[tom91]

Run the Zero-EV/Fellten CCS controller profile. It will then allow the Orion to recieve the CP limits over CAN and thus control the onboard charger.

You will need to sort the waking of the BMS when you want to charge as the PP wake up is no longer done via the Orion.

You cannot have more the one device on the CP and PP line of the charge port really.

[MoonUnit]

Thanks for the suggestion. Do you know where I can find out what the Zero-EV /Fellten CCS profile actually does, in terms of logic, process and CAN message structure? I haven't asked them yet as they have no incentive to get into the weeds with me on this. I haven't asked Orion either just yet.

My initial plan was to use a man-in-the-middle board, to take BMS limits from the Orion and send them to Uhi22's board and vice-versa. But that would mean the Orion would not know it's in 'charge' mode - as far as it was concerned it would be in normal 'ready' mode and any current coming into the pack would just need to obey its various safety limits (which my MINTM would translate into instructions for Uhi22's board). It would help if I knew what Zero's CCS profile actually did, perhaps it's a similar approach.

Also, I will be having two charge ports in this solution - one for the old J1772 and one for the new CCS and you are correct, I'd need to work out how to switch over the CP/PP lines if the Orion were to be dealing with both protocols for the charging process.

[tom91]

It is literally in the CAN message screen of the Orion. It auto populates.

Attached the DBC with the CAN info pulled out of the Orion software.

[MoonUnit]

Magic, thank you, I will mull that over.

[tom91]

Way the Orion 2 interprets it is AC current limit is 0xFF means it is not AC charging. If the current limit is anything else it takes the AC current limit and uses it for its own onboard logic to control the AC Onboard charger.

Ofcourse you still need to power the Orion with Ready or Charge 12V power based on what you are trying to do to it.

[MoonUnit]

If I understand then (guessing):

a Fellten hardware module detects the user plugging a charge cable into the car. This hardware recognises a plug is present (maybe it provides the 12V to the Orion to go into charge mode).

The hardware interrogates the CP to decide whether it's a CCS EVSE or type2 AC one, and sends a CAN message to the Orion, saying either 0xFF or some lower number. If 0xFF the Orion sees this as DC charging and presumably responds with its internal charging logic alorithm using the Zero-EV CCS controller profile messages back to the Fellten hardware and EVSE.

If less than 0xFF it follows its J772 process and whatever internal charging logic it would use normally for that, and communicates with the onboard charger using whatever profile set up for it - in my case I have the Elcon/TC profile.

The Orion therefore has two profiles set up - the Fellten one and (for me) the Elcon one, and no physical CP/PP connection to it. By using the Fellten profile, the ORion is now no longer expecting to get CP/PP physically, it gets woken up by the the Fellten box and given the CP aka avaliable current value over CAN.

When using the Fellten system, I think you are saying there is no CP from the charge port to the Orion, it is decided by the Fellten hardware and sent to the Orion via CANbus and that 0xFF basically sets it.

Does this sound right?

[tom91]

Yes like I said.

Charging - 12V into charge power from whatever detects the plug and decides that charging is going to happen. Orion configured for the Felten CCS is looking for the CAN message to determine if it is AC or DC charge. You need the Elcon CAN profile also active if the Orion then needs to control the charger based on the recieved AC current limit.

Orion is not physically connected to CP or PP.

[MoonUnit]

Thanks, super helpful, much obliged to you.