Help! I blew a 400A fuse and a contactor but not sure why?  [SOLVED]

Introduction and miscellaneous that we haven't created categories for, yet
Post Reply
Alibro
Posts: 861
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Northern Ireland
Has thanked: 273 times
Been thanked: 153 times
Contact:

Help! I blew a 400A fuse and a contactor but not sure why?

Post by Alibro »

I've been tidying up the wiring in the HV junction box for a couple of weeks (among other things) and would test startup and motor spin every time I changed something so that if I made a mistake it would be simple to backtrack. However last night after not really changing anything I turned on the ignition and there was a loud bang followed by no HV! After some investigation I found a blown 400A fuse and the negative contactor was fused closed. :o
After the usual headless chicken routine I powered everything off then back on with the inverter disconnected looking for a smoking gun but I couldn't find anything. There are no shorts in the HV system so the positive contactor must have triggered before precharge had happened.
As I was tired I decided to sleep on it and as often happens woke this morning at 5am with a theory.

I have a Gen 1 Nissan Leaf VCU from Damien which has outputs to mitigate against this happening and I believe I have it connected correctly as the precharge is controlled by output 1, the main positive contactor by output 2 and the inverter by output 3. The VCU is not supposed to enable output 2 until after the inverter reports seeing pack voltage over 330V.

During all the testing I had done trying to get a reliable startup sequence I ended up connecting all of the timer relays to the ignition Pos 2 so they all powered on together, the Negative contactor triggers every time with the ignition Pos 1. I also had turned all the timers to 0 seconds as I was trusting the VCU to control precharge. I'm only using them as relays to drive the contactors.
After the issue while testing with the inverter disconnected, output 1 triggered but output 2 did not which is correct as the inverter could not see HV.

So if the VCU is operating correctly then how could the main positive contactor come on before the precharge has finished?
This is my theory and I'm hoping someone can advise if it is plausible.

Over the last few weeks I have seen the VCU hang at various times. I had put it down to being the laptop USB connection plugged in but wasn't sure as it seemed to happen randomly. Last night I had plugged in the laptop to see what voltage the inverter was reporting so this is definitely possible. Thinking back there were clues to what might happen that I didn't pick up at the time but on reflection it gives me a possible cause for the fuse blowing.

The first couple of times the VCU hung with the ignition on while I was testing. On these occasions I realised the motor had stopped spinning, turned the ignition off and on again and although the contactors all triggered as normal (I thought) I still didn't get motor spin until I reset the VCU.
A couple of times after this the VCU hung with the ignition off and I got no contactors turning on when I turned on the ignition. Resetting the VCU put everything back to normal. Mmmmmm

So it is possible the VCU was freezing with the outputs locked either on or off, depending on the state it was in when it froze and in this state when I turned the ignition off and on again all the timer relays would either trigger at the same moment or not at all. This would have the following results.

If it froze:-
1. With the ignition on, when I turned it off and on again reasonably quickly nothing bad would happen because the inverter would still be charged.
2. With the ignition off nothing would happen because the timer relays did not trigger.
3. With the ignition on when I turned the ignition off left it for 30 mins or so then back on all the timer relays triggered together and blew the fuse.

I haven't reconnected the inverter yet so don't know if more harm was done but now I have a plausible theory as to what happened will give it a try later today. Wish me luck.

So what are the take aways here?
1. It's good to have fuses
2. Do not have a single point of failure, nothing is fool proof. Had I turned up the timer for the Positive contactor even just a couple of seconds it would have been OK.
3. When something unusual happens investigate a bit more thoroughly than I did.
4. When Damien did his best to make his VCU idiot proof the world just went out and created a better idiot. :lol:

Any thoughts from others?
Is it unusual for connecting a laptop to mess up the VCU? Does it make a difference if the laptop is plugged in.
I need a bigger hammer!
m.art.y
Posts: 562
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:54 pm
Location: UK/EU
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Help! I blew a 400A fuse and a contactor but not sure why?

Post by m.art.y »

Hi, is your VCU SAM3X based? I use the SAM3X based controller for the Tesla gen3 charger and every time the USB cable is disconnected it stops all the charging and restarts after a few moments. So connecting/disconnecting USB might indeed freeze the controller. The precharge sequence should be wired to not start until you press start(turn the key to start position). Does yours start when you turn on the ignition?
Alibro
Posts: 861
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Northern Ireland
Has thanked: 273 times
Been thanked: 153 times
Contact:

Re: Help! I blew a 400A fuse and a contactor but not sure why?

Post by Alibro »

I think it's based on an Arduino Due.
Yes precharge happens when the VCU gets 12V on Input 1. I think it is on ign pos 1 but need to confirm.
In an ideal world precharge would happen on ign but the positive contactor wouldn't get power until the VCU Enables it but also via a button. That way it would take a second or so to move your hand from the key to the button.
I need a bigger hammer!
User avatar
andybpowell
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:04 pm
Location: Southend,essex,uk
Has thanked: 197 times
Been thanked: 234 times
Contact:

Re: Help! I blew a 400A fuse and a contactor but not sure why?

Post by andybpowell »

What do you mean by "not really changing anything" ?
User avatar
andybpowell
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:04 pm
Location: Southend,essex,uk
Has thanked: 197 times
Been thanked: 234 times
Contact:

Re: Help! I blew a 400A fuse and a contactor but not sure why?

Post by andybpowell »

When I was bench testing my leaf setup when I first got it due to a silly error on my part I was running without precharge and I never blew my 350 A fuse and I must have started it 20 plus times on the other hand I have also had a few disasters after what I initially thought was not really changing anything
m.art.y
Posts: 562
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:54 pm
Location: UK/EU
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Help! I blew a 400A fuse and a contactor but not sure why?

Post by m.art.y »

Indeed it is quite unlikely that a missed precharge could have caused that kind of damage. Especially the 'loud bang' part suggests that there was some kind of short inside the HV system (inverter etc) or a reversed polarity.
Alibro
Posts: 861
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Northern Ireland
Has thanked: 273 times
Been thanked: 153 times
Contact:

Re: Help! I blew a 400A fuse and a contactor but not sure why?

Post by Alibro »

m.art.y wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2023 1:15 pm Indeed it is quite unlikely that a missed precharge could have caused that kind of damage. Especially the 'loud bang' part suggests that there was some kind of short inside the HV system (inverter etc) or a reversed polarity.
I really hope not but will know better later when I try again. I'm pretty certain it couldn't have been the HV heater or charger as I have them fused at 20A
I need a bigger hammer!
Alibro
Posts: 861
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Northern Ireland
Has thanked: 273 times
Been thanked: 153 times
Contact:

Re: Help! I blew a 400A fuse and a contactor but not sure why?

Post by Alibro »

andybpowell wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:37 pm What do you mean by "not really changing anything" ?
I was poking about and moving stuff but hadn't rewired anything. Maybe just plugged in the laptop a while earlier.
I need a bigger hammer!
Alibro
Posts: 861
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Northern Ireland
Has thanked: 273 times
Been thanked: 153 times
Contact:

Re: Help! I blew a 400A fuse and a contactor but not sure why?

Post by Alibro »

andybpowell wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2023 12:43 pm When I was bench testing my leaf setup when I first got it due to a silly error on my part I was running without precharge and I never blew my 350 A fuse and I must have started it 20 plus times on the other hand I have also had a few disasters after what I initially thought was not really changing anything
I fused a couple of contactors that way.
I need a bigger hammer!
Alibro
Posts: 861
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Northern Ireland
Has thanked: 273 times
Been thanked: 153 times
Contact:

Re: Help! I blew a 400A fuse and a contactor but not sure why?  [SOLVED]

Post by Alibro »

Great news guys it looks like I didn't kill the inverter or charger. :D
I replaced the dead fuse and fused contactor, reconnected as before and it powered on with no problems so maybe my theory is correct.
I'm now going to work out a way to ensure the same sequence cannot occur and will avoid plugging into the USB socket unless really necessary but will be careful to reboot the VCU afterwards if I do.
I must have a look at power on sequencing when my new book arrives. :)
I need a bigger hammer!
Post Reply