ID.3 and other MEB battery packs in conversions

[postmann2002]

Hallo, bin gerade dabei mit meinem Sohn einen Honda S2000 auf E-Antrieb umzubauen. Als Energiequelle habe ich ein komplettes MEB-Pack mit 62kWh hier rumliegen.
Ins Auto kommen 8 Module hinein, die ich später warscheinlich mit SimpBMS oä. betreiben möchte. Habe schon mit dem Batteriekasten begonnen, aber leider kam mir jetzt eine Leistenbruch-OP in die Quere, so daß ich mit dem Heavy-Metal-Arbeiten pausieren muß.
Ein Modul bleibt mir übrig und dieses wollte ich als PV-Speicher einsetzen.
Jetzt bin ich schon seit Tagen verzweifelt am Rumexperimentieren mit dem Modul und einem dazugehörigen MCM-Slave (das Kleine mit nur einem Batteriestecker) und einem Arduino UNO mit einem MCP2515-Can-Modul. Alles ist richtig angeschlossen, und ich sehe auch Traffic auf dem seriellen Monitor der Arduino-IDE... das war`s auch schon.
Ich habe auch versucht den simpBMS-Code zu analysieren... aber der ist (für mich zumindest) wahnsinnig kompliziert, da er auch C++ Komponnenten hat.
Nunja als erstes wollte ich eigentlich mir die Temperaturfühler anzeigen lassen und im Simp-Code stand was von ID 0x1A5555EF-0x1A5555FF, wo die drin stehen müssten...diese ID's spuckt er auch aus, aber ich kann in keinem der 8 Bytes was erkennen, was nach Temperatur aussieht.
Naja, ich bin mit meinem Latein am Ende und vielleicht kann mir einer hier im Forum helfen.
Mein Englisch ist leider sehr ungenügend, deshalb ist dieser Beitrag auf Deutsch... aber ich habe mit lesen von Englischen Beiträgen kein Problem, deshalb können die Antworten auch in englisch sein.
Über paar Hinweise würde ich mich freuen.
Gruß Peter

[MisterQ]

Few limitations:
1. All cell tap connectors need to be connected on the slave for it to send plausible data
2. Limited to utilizing slaves with different IDs (so no mixing between packs)
3. No balancing as of yet I require a working internal battery can capture with balancing occurring.

I have a VW ID.3 Slave BMS module for 12S modules and a 12S battery module.

Without connection to the battery module, I have traffic on the CAN data bus sent from Slave BMS module, which is directly connected to the CAN receiver device, but CAN receiver device cannot recognise anything.

When you state "All cell tap connectors need to be connected on the slave for it to send plausible data", does it mean that I must connect 4 battery modules on the slave BMS (with 4 sockets), or is sufficient to connect only one battery module?

Is it possible to communicate directly to the Slave BMS module with VWBMS software, or it must be done trough the Main BMS module?

Best regards,
Dragan

[EV_Builder]

Hi Dragan,

I think you need 4 modules connected. Saying that others have more experience with this hardware.

[tom91]

When you state "All cell tap connectors need to be connected on the slave for it to send plausible data", does it mean that I must connect 4 battery modules on the slave BMS (with 4 sockets), or is sufficient to connect only one battery module?

Is it possible to communicate directly to the Slave BMS module with VWBMS software, or it must be done trough the Main BMS module?

If there is 4 possible module connections all 4 need to be connected.

You can communicate directly with the BMS Slave over canbus using the SimpBMS using the VWBMS firmware.

[postmann2002]

Hello, I have got a whole MEB-ID3 Battery-System with 9 Modules, 2x4Port and 1x1Port MCM-BMS-Slaves, the Power-Switching-Sector and some connection-stuff and cables. All components were connected by CAN-Bus together.
I haven't investigated the contactor-section yet, therefore now my question:
Does a SimpBMS or the new GRNbms also support the original Power-switching-sector (contactors precharge, power, charge)?
I suppose that all contactors are activated by CAN-Signals... or am I wrong and they are controlled directly by 12V?
Kind regards,
Peter

[martii]

Hello, I have got a whole MEB-ID3 Battery-System with 9 Modules, 2x4Port and 1x1Port MCM-BMS-Slaves, the Power-Switching-Sector and some connection-stuff and cables. All components were connected by CAN-Bus together.
I haven't investigated the contactor-section yet, therefore now my question:
Does a SimpBMS or the new GRNbms also support the original Power-switching-sector (contactors precharge, power, charge)?
I suppose that all contactors are activated by CAN-Signals... or am I wrong and they are controlled directly by 12V?
Kind regards,
Peter

I don't think it's that simple - there are more security measures with master BMS like HV isolation test and HVIL.

[arber333]

Has anyone found the connectors for modules and slaves or are they VW proprietary?
IMG_1485.jpg
Thanks!

I would like to built 3x 12S VW pack interface board to connect my BMS to LG 12S modules and i cant seem to find any info on the sockets opposite cable connector (male brown side). Does anyone know what PN would that have?

tnx

[tom91]

I would like to built 3x 12S VW pack interface board to connect my BMS to LG 12S modules and i cant seem to find any info on the sockets opposite cable connector (male brown side). Does anyone know what PN would that have?

tnx

The are not available anywhere people have looked.

EV Create salvage connectors off of BMS CMUs and make various items.

https://www.evcreate.com/shop/batteries ... tap-board/

[arber333]

The are not available anywhere people have looked.

EV Create salvage connectors off of BMS CMUs and make various items.

https://www.evcreate.com/shop/batteries ... tap-board/

Ah OK thanks. I will just have to make my BMS looms by splicing cables...

[arber333]

Hm...

I found out that one of my 12S modules has a problem. Actually they might be 2.
My BMS cant see 4 cells since it seems two fuses are broken.

I inspected the contacts by multimeter directly and indeed i couldnt get a contact with 2 cell lines.

I decided i have to see how to make those lines detectable again.
1. I purchased 10x Fuse 1206 750mA from aliexpress
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1904023 ... 1802520TjT

2. I used the angle grinder to cut into the welds and knock the side plates off the 12S module.
Under those plates were the cell tabs where i could directly measure the cells. All the cells were fine.

3. I identified the broken fuses and tried to replace the fuses. I found out the fuses were glued by some resillient compound which didnt let me fet to the fuses directly. I tried to get to the fuses via soldering iron heat and replace them but it didnt work i managed to overheat the track and it seems it still doesnt provide the clear line to connector.

I posted some photos of 12S internals for posterity .
I have to think on a different plan of how to get access to cell lines...
Anyone has any suggestions? I will accept any idea...

tnx

[uhi22]

I'd try to flex the compound over the fuse away, so that there is clean access to both pads. And just solder the new fuse on top of the old one, this eliminates the risk of breaking the tracks. The "dremel way":

image.png (39.91 KiB) Viewed 14154 times

When the tracks are already damaged, then the next quesion is: Is this copper or aluminium (like I saw on the tesla batteries)? If copper, then just scratch the covering plastic until the clean copper is there, and solder a (very) thin wire. If it is aluminium, I have no idea.

[EV_Builder]

Dremel the fuse away but leave the tinned part.

[raine]

Hi, What is the easiest method to verify if 4-way CMU CAN ID's overlap? I have some CMU's from different packs that I would like to use in a same canbus. Is there an easy way to determine how each CMU is identified. I have learned these id's cannot be changed, but would like to understand if I need to isolate them to separate buses.

Thanks!

[Carel Hassink]

Raine, I use a SIMPbms, in overview screen of serial monitor you see ID's of CMU's in use,
it's a quick&dirty process testing VAG CMU ID's quickly

[Bendewilde]

Hi all,
I am planning to use MEB modules in my conversion and am planning the cooling. I saw on this forum that someone seems to have done 100kw charging without any liquid cooling and even without active air cooling.

Does anyone have experience with how much the bazteries heat up during charging? I am planning to build in 3 6.6kw chargers so 19.8kw max charging capacity. Any idea how much that will heat up the batteries? I only need to do that up to say 75% soc.

Thanks!
Ben

[Lood]

Hi,

I got the EVS BMS running with the lg chem 12s modules.
Now I got 1 cell of a module at 2.69V (others about 3.4V)
What is the minimum voltage of these cells? I found 3.3V on the internet. Can I (safely) charge this cell or better not to use this module anymore?

When I bought the modules the voltage differences of the cells where ok. I did not uses them four 5 months.

Thanks

[arber333]

Hi,

I got the EVS BMS running with the lg chem 12s modules.
Now I got 1 cell of a module at 2.69V (others about 3.4V)
What is the minimum voltage of these cells? I found 3.3V on the internet. Can I (safely) charge this cell or better not to use this module anymore?

When I bought the modules the voltage differences of the cells where ok. I did not uses them four 5 months.

Thanks

You need to immediately recharge that cell back to 3.4V. I heared about that. A friend had his JK BMS connected for long period of time and same thing happened. Then you need to investigate what happened! This is so because ID3 has cells in pairs. If a single cell would fail then the other one would take complete load. In that case you are not far from disaster. Test capacity of cells in your module.
I myself barely escaped disaster last year when one of the cells died during drive on route Split - Zagreb. I had to do open heart surgery in parking lot to completely bypass that 8S2P module to drive home!!!

[nkiernan]

Are there users who have mounted VW MEB 8S or 12S modules on their side in conversions? Was sure I read that this was not a good idea with these cell types but can't find it now. It does look like Fellten mount eight 12S modules vertically on their side in their universal 55kWh packs. This would allow me to package things much neater then!

[arber333]

Are there users who have mounted VW MEB 8S or 12S modules on their side in conversions?

I myself put ID3 modules on the sides. I was warned by a friend with experience that that way only 75% of capacity could be used and that there is more chance of cell death. Since then i am trying to install modules in their original orientation.
Notice that on the bottom of the module there is hefty thermal medium material to help dissipate heat around. This should be in contact with cooling plate.

[nkiernan]

I was warned by a friend with experience that that way only 75% of capacity could be used and that there is more chance of cell death

Thanks arber333. Do you know if the lower capacity was to do with thermal management or just the way the cells work? Fellten look to sandwich a cooling plate between four modules (2 either side) that are mounted on their side. I was thinking they'd have gotten some sort of supplier ok for that

[nkiernan]

I'm looking at using a VW ID4 82kWh pack. With the feedback on the forum here on potential for single cell issues and previous VW battery recalls, I'd like to be able to bring a test set up to the breakers to do some basic checks on the closed pack.

Thinking I'll go with SimpBMS or EVS BMS for the project, but has there been a basic Arduino or similar sketch by anyone here to verify cell voltages of a closed pack?

Secondly, has control of the internal switching/contactors been cracked either in one of the commercial setups or open sourced? Doesn't seem to be

[m.art.y]

Jochen,
till date we have seen LC CHEM or CATL produced MEB battery modules

Are CATL found in 62 kwh packs too? Any chance to recognize from the outside without opening the pack which packs have CATL modules? Thanks

[tka]

Hi all,


I have updated my energy storage system.
I have replaced the GTE Passat battery 13kwh with an ID3 battery 58kwh.
Everything works except the balancing.

I can read 108 voltages and 9 temperatures from the ID3 battery CMUs.
But the balancing doesn't turn on.

I'm trying to enable balancing with e.g. CAN command 0x1A55540A. “It works with the GTE Passat battery”

Has anyone gotten the balancing to work in the ID 3 58 kwh battery?
I don't know why I can't get the balancing to work.

Thanks.

[johu]

Yes, its a remix of Toms code and tailored for 8 modules:

https://github.com/jsphuebner/stm32-car ... mebbms.cpp

Should be sufficient for grasping the principle and proven to work

[alex199170]

Hello guys,

Im new here and I am thinking of using VW ID battery modules for an EV rebuild.

I have read the OEM VW CMU only works if all 4 ports a populated with battery modules. Is there a workaround possible? Like dummy modules?
Because due to space contraints I am limited to one CMU in front with 2s modules and one CMU in back with 3s modules.

I was also thinking of using the simp BMS.

Thanks in advance,
BR, Alex