Leaving the forum

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Jack Bauer
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Leaving the forum

Post by Jack Bauer »

Folks am sad to say the time seems to have come for me to leave the forum. From what I can see over much of the past year the projects I've pursued are of little to no interest to a good 98% of members if participation is any guide. I miss waking up eagerly to check the forum and see if someone in a different timezone or with a different sleep pattern had figured something out. I miss the camaraderie of working toward a shared goal or hacking a piece of hardware or code. Now I dread to look on here as its an endless list of new problems presented for me to fix or people asking questions that have been already dealt with in videos or past posts because they are "too busy" to watch a video or read a thread. Even a simple wiki update now has to be begged for. A simple "Thank You" is absent from most areas when something is fixed or updated.

I really don't know when or if I'll return but my work will continue on Github/Patreon/Youtube/Vimeo for as long as I'm able. Best of luck to everyone and it was an absolute great time but I guess nothing stays the same.
I'm going to need a hacksaw
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by johu »

No need saying what a loss this is for the forum. Hope you'll return here at some point.

Luckily I lately experienced the opposite, so happy on here for now.

I think this is also a warning for everyone who can't be bothered to research. Overstress the active developers and they vanish sooner or later.

Every (correct) sentence added to the wiki is a contribution that helps prevent this. Every redundant question not asked as well.

Want to add, the common goal is de-ICEing as many cars as possible, lets push on with that still :)
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MattsAwesomeStuff
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

One of the social features on the new DIY Electric Car forums that I kind of sneered at when I first saw it, but have really come around to, is the simple "Like" button.

And it's not impersonal. It's not a faceless counter. It gives them a little notification, and it stamps their post with your name having appreciated the post, so you and everyone can see who was thankful. It doesn't feel like you're speaking to an empty room.

There are many times on the forums here that I want to give feedback, and there's no way of doing that besides making a whole post. Well you don't need 20 people creating a new post and clogging the airwaves just to say they valued your contribution. I often have little to contribute other than to say "I'm interesting in seeing where this is going" or "That's an exciting development" or "Thanks for sharing" and I feel like I'm making the forum a worse place if that's all I have to say.

I know a lot of time people's decisions aren't guided by facts, but by feelings. Specifically, that one of the founders and one of the chief contributors to the community feeling like 98% of people in the community have no interest in their work, when, it's quite literally 100% of the community that feels the opposite way, reveals perhaps how limited this framework is for showing appreciation.

In terms of facts, if you check the recent changes to the wiki: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Special:R ... lversion=2 ... I can see that only 3 days in the last 3 weeks where there wasn't an update to the wiki. And it's not being done by only a few people. Of the 18 days that wiki edits were made, there are 14 different users who made them (and for reference, I'm not one of them and I'm a prolific contributor there, there's probably many others like me who go through update binges, in fact I know there are, many of the editing-heavy contributors aren't on that recent list). Lots of them are Damien's projects too, the GS450H, the BMW i3 LIM, the Tesla stuff, the Zombieverter. Expanding that list, it's consistently almost every day that someone contributes something.

To some degree "Read through 400 posts that you have no ability to understand, just in case we've answered this question, which you might not even recognize" is not a reasonable expectation. If this stuff was easy, there wouldn't be such a small community able to do it. And there will always exist some freeloaders, so there's not much gained by abandoning the community because of them. It doesn't hurt the freeloaders any, and it does hurt the people you did want as part of the community. In particular, I've seen a bunch of new members join and turn into really solid contributors this year. Without participation, those people are not able to join, and that shrinks the pool of contributing peers even smaller, not grows it. How would new people even find out there are efforts that they could contribute to, if they're not here?

Again, decisions often being guided by feelings, not facts, but motivation doesn't come from facts. It's a problem if someone that literally everyone looks forward to hearing from, thinks no one has any interest in what they do.

If a community's causing someone anxiety, doesn't matter who you are, you owe the community nothing. Do what's best for you.

If this change is good for Damien and makes him feel more positively about the community he can surround himself with, and avoid the parts of the community he doesn't want to associate with, and that that helps him find more contributors than being here, more power to him.

Everyone has their limits for bullshit.
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by johu »

Matt, you must be a politician or trade unionist or something. Seriously, well put.
Saw this function on a forum "has thanked x times and has been thanked y times". Will look out for one, hints welcome.
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by Ev8 »

I can only offer more of the same sad sentiments that others will offer, your budget red arrow build videos are what got me started and gave me the confidence I too could do this, later leading me to this forum, where I’ve tried to contribute where I can, I wish I was able to do more, I will keep watching your videos you will be missed and I thank you for all your hard work and the inspiration
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by johu »

It's often the ones who already did chime in somewhere who think they haven't done enough. Your fearless testing is much appreciated.

Thanks plugin installed, thank me for it :)
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Peter
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by Peter »

If we send Gome cat and his daddy some Christmas pressies will that help keep you both here ?
Seriously though you have been and are indeed an inspiration Damien. Your skills for reverse engineering and design are second to none and without you the forum would be missing a king pin. From my perspective, without you and Johannes the forum would not have grown so well and be so popular.
I bought the first ever Combi V8 board from you years ago and have followed your revealing videos and funny comments ever since, for which a BIG thank you. I still remember the conversations we had when you were contemplating leaving 'gainful employ' !
Chill over Christmas, do some EV miles and I hope you will stay... please :-)
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

[Edited to add, in the time it took me to write this, you already found and installed a plugin.]
johu wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:06 amMatt, you must be a politician or trade unionist or something. Seriously, well put.
Nope, I work alone and I'm not good with people. I'm too blunt and tactless to succeed in any social roles. I just type fast :p But thank you, that's kind of you to say.
Saw this function on a forum "has thanked x times and has been thanked y times". Will look out for one, hints welcome.
Well, Vertical scope has like, 1800 forums under their umbrella and they all use the same software, so, any generic car forum would give you a hint.

Just to cherrypick a random known example, because "any" isn't something you can click on: https://www.opelgt.com/threads/help-gor ... st-1482651

The thing I specifically like about it is that it marks the post itself with who wanted to say something, and you have a few options for the icon that's supposed to represent what you're acting out of (whether you thought it was funny, or helpful, or you sympathize with the frustration, etc). When that user logs in, their notifications tells them about all the people who thanked their posts and which ones they were. And it's not gamified, it's not a counter or an impersonal number. Those ones almost cause more anxiety because it feels like a numbers game rather than a personal social experience. It lists who it was. This instead of just getting updates about people nagging you asking you new questions and giving you new work. It also gives the community in general a bit of meta data about who's interested in what, even if they're not replying or saying anything. I can tell who's excited about something, even when a half-dozen of us have said nothing in the thread yet, and it feels more like a community.

I regularly have people still liking posts I wrote years ago, that I'd forgotten I'd made. But here comes along someone who needed that info, or found that explanation helpful, and specifically acted to let me know.

One thing I've noticed in a lot of the volunteering I've done, that leaders in a community often struggle with, is the curse of solving problems too well. If you do too good a job, there's nothing to criticize, nitpick, improve on, etc. You can shut a conversation down just by saying something so well that, nothing more need be said. People almost want to just stay out of your way and let you work. A treasurer finishes the budget and it doesn't need tweaking. Someone creates a pamphlet and it's good enough to send to the printer's. Someone updates their software and it works and there's nothing to comment about it. Doing something really well can appear just the same as doing something so poorly that no one wants to have anything to do with it. (There's a bad side to doing work too well on top of the 'no feedback' side, and it's that if people know you'll do the work regardless, they sometimes hide until you do everything yourself rather than help).

I'm not socially driven at all. I feel awkward being praised and don't seek it out. But damned if it didn't surprise me just how encouraging it is to write something or contribute a little thing, and then come back the next day to even just 2-5 people having said nothing in reply but taken the time to click the like button. Like, here's what otherwise looked like a dead thread, and no. It lets me know someone actually read it, even if no one replied. And sometimes it shocks me the type of content that people appreciated. Fact is, 99%+ of the time someone enjoyed a post, the correct response was to do nothing. You never know about it. I read hundreds of posts a day across a few communities, I click "like" on a small handful. So just knowing that, it's kind of like the one kid in class that asks the question you thought was dumb. For every person that asked the question, there were probably 10 more who didn't understand but didn't want to raise their hand. You see 2-5 people like a post and you think "There's gotta be 20-50 people who read and enjoyed that". And then sometimes I picture what 20-50 people in a room looks like. Hell, that's a crowd.

That versus, you make a post and no one replies and you think "Hmm, I wonder if anyone read it? I hope so..." Particularly, if you tend to struggle with low self esteem, the way you fill in the blanks on the unknown is to reflect your own self-image. And so much of your community impact is unknown and unknowable. So perhaps you're going to be miserable, feel like it's a waste of time, think no one cares, etc. Seeing a few people give you concrete evidence of the truth, might not let your brain fill those unknowns in with your frustrations.

Like I said, I rolled my eyes and thought "Oh great, another community trying to be Facebook, just leave the damned thing alone", but I think it's really brought communities closer together by giving them more metadata in a passively absorbable way.
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by arber333 »

Damn!
I should apologize then Damien. I wasnt very avid on giving "likes" as i dont give much weight to that kind of klicks.
I do sincerely thank you for your work, results of which i clearly see in my garage. I built as much as three cars using your references and at least one was rebuilt several times because i used different hardware. Again using your instructions as much as possible.
I hope i thanked you as much as i bothered you in pms 😁.

I could take over various wiki input duty if you agree. As you see from my posts i like to read/document stuff much more than simply watch videos. I dont know if that would make you keep your eye at the forum more... one can hope.
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by Pete9008 »

Very, very sorry to hear this :(

So far I've not been able to contribute to any of your newer threads but still follow them with interest.

I have read and benefited from pretty much all your earlier posts, especially those on the Toyota reverse engineering which are an ongoing source of reference. I also very much doubt that I would have considered starting a conversion without your examples of what's possible using OEM hardware. So for all the information, and inspiration, a very big thank you! (and sorry for not having said it sooner).

Hope you change your mind your mind and return to the forum at some point but do whatever you need to in order stay happy, motivated and interested.
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by Bratitude »

☹️

I’m very sorry to hear this Damien! I understand where you are coming from. There’s a growing amount of bullshit on here, lots of filler no killer. silly post are popping up, managing them is a lofty task. But through the rubble there are some amazing developments and projects.

the red arrow propelled me into this space, leading me to a rapidly growing hardware business. my debts are owed to both you and johu.

I have to say the amount of knowledge from others on here now is amazing, there is a solid community core, with many new ideas being developed. One thing I have noticed is time scale: you are incredibly fast and talented in your efforts, I don’t think many of us have the same amount of time or life long experience that you do to develop at the same pace.

With that said, you’ll be missed!


Maybe with this the community will be pushed to document and organize with the segregation. This might be a really good move in the end, as much as I hate to say it
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by jalovick »

It's a sad day indeed when one of the biggest contributors is bowing out of the forum.

Unfortunately, I fall more into the boat of lacking the coding skills, understanding of CAN, and the some various other bits that could contribute to furthering the Open Inverter/EVBMW cause. The best I can do is contribute by doing research and collating information in the hope that it's helpful.

I can say that I have certainly appreciated all of your work, and will do my best to support you and the forum anyway I can.

Jamie
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by RetroZero »

Yes, very sad news. I agree with the community that one of the king pins leaving feels like a huge hole has been opened under our feet. I will persue the Prius transaxle thanks to Damien and Johannes, along with Pete and everyone testing (if you are useless at anything else like me). I think the like button could be a great idea.
Maybe setting up some kind of a rule where questions cannot be asked without doing a word search (a few times)?
I hope we'll see you back soon and by contributing to your projects here, they will bring back the spark. Would not be where I am today without your transaxle weld up videos.
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by nkiernan »

Its horrible to read your post above Damien realizing that I and others here have made you feel that way about the community after all your astounding work and effort and giving. Apologies for the lack of showing appreciation, and I do wish my skills were better able to help contributions.

Very sad to hear you need to step away but wishing you the best in what's to come. Thank you Damien
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by lsh3rd »

Danien, thanks so much for your contributions... each new YouTube video is an incredible treat to watch and I look forward to many more. Hopefully you'll be back here in time - sometimes a little break is a good thing.
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by storm4710 »

Damien
Thanks for all your work Buddy,
I watch every one of your videos😃
I dont comment most of the time(in threads here) because i dont have much to add that has not been said before,
And i very rarely work on projects i can comment on(through my work)
Please take care buddy
Best Regards
Martin
Denmark

BTW Matt
I am the guy on reddit that had a LS600H gearbox running with a GS450H inverter
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by Roger »

This is unfortunate, Damien was one of the key contributors to this forum and he will definitely be missed. I was surprised when he moved house and helped the forum the way he did. Thanks for your generous invaluable knowledge
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by PacEmaker »

Like Jalovick above, I'm also lacking in the coding skills to contribute and can barely follow along when coding rears its ugly head - so thanks Damien for all you've contributed here and I'll continue supporting and following you on Patreon as long as I have the chance.

It goes without saying, except I'm gonna say it, that both Johannes and Damien should be supported by anyone here who has already benefited or who stands to benefit from their hard work. It's the least we can do, and there's potential to grow their community there too.
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Is this smoke trying to tell me something ... :twisted:
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by golfdubcrazy »

Its a real shame to see you go, you have help many people on and off this forum including myself. so all i can say is a big thank you :)
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by Davidk »

I am lurking on this forum for last two years to get enough info to make my first conversion. I discovered this community because of your videos on youtube.

It sad to see you “leaving”, thanks for all your work!
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by Cookie6000 »

All I can say Damien is, thank you :)

For upending the world with your interest in reverse engineering something when the internet told you 'it's impossible Damien... don't waste your time!... stop it!... YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!' because, as we all know, the internet is always right. Without you and Johannes' mammoth effort (and countless other contributing forum members) this tome, this repository, this bible of sanity-checked EV conversion wisdom would simply not exist and we would all be the worse off for it and be stuck watching funny cat videos.

In what seems like an age ago, I stumbled upon you electrifying a CBR600, years later you helped me through the growing pains of creating my own ev conversion, firstly through the first training course and after through the growing OI forum where James (Project Figleaf) and I put the first iteration of your Leaf VCU through its paces and hoped in some way as the thread grew, helped others who followed after. It was such an infinitesimal percentage compared to your overall OI contribution but you posed the right questions when we were banging our heads against a wall (not giving the obvious answers) to make us work it out for ourselves because that's the essence of the forum, get the noodle working. It's not easy, no, but with a little effort, anyone can get some wheels spinning. There are some however who wish to be spoon-fed but... hey ho.

Yes, it's a shared creation this forum is, by some very intelligent and giving people but, as a legacy, shared or otherwise, it's a mighty fine legacy to leave everyone... if for just a little break ;)

See you back here soon.

And don't forget....
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by johu »



That's what he said
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by nwhittredge »

First post and can imagine how frustrating it is to see people either seeming totally disengaged or asking repeat questions. I hope to contribute to the forum in some tiny way to help it improve to the point where it seems like it could be fun to re-join again. Just reading this forum and watching yours and Johannes videos has been incredibly inspiring and educational and i hope to embark on my first conversion this winter. Appreciate your hard work and trust you will manage your time and energy to not get burned out in any one direction.
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by EV_Builder »

Jack leaving?

I don't think that's helpfull at all for you Jack...

My problem is time. And i think many people have this issue. The second problem is i don't have a running Car yet so many subject can't contribute on.

You have like this as daily job. So that' gives you way more power then us. In a couple of hours in an evening much isn't possible.

Also I wonder how do you know how well the forum worked if you didn't get that email from a buyer.

If it's though Damien maybe just lower the bar? In the end life is a bit about expectation management too...
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Re: Leaving the forum

Post by Alibro »

Gutted to read this Damien.
My feelings have already been voiced by others much better than I could.
It's entirely your fault I'm in the mess I am with my conversion and I wouldn't have it any other way. I have had the best time of my life working at it.
Every little win along the way filled me with happiness and I still have more to go.
I'm pretty rubbish at many of the skills involved so heavily rely on the expertise of others and your help has been invaluable.

Whatever you decide tho make sure you put your own family, health and happiness first.
I need a bigger hammer!
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